You make the play....AKs on a LAG table!

[Jezza]

Hi everyone, Here is a hand that I was involved in just an hour or two ago, I will post as far as the flop action and then I would like your opinions on what you feel the best play for me to make was, then tomorrow I will post the results of how I actually played it. There is a deposit bonus on on pokerstars at the moment (runs out today....20% up to 120 max bonus) anyway, I have been playing on there to clear my 120 dollars. Mostly 2/4 NL cash but a few hours at 1/2 as well. I couldnt sleep last night so ended up logging on at 5am, after a browse through the available games the 2/4s were all a joke - rock pools filled with TAGs and pros, whats the point? The same seemed true of even the 1/2 Tables but then I spotted one that looked half decent - it had a high average pot and % of players for flop. Observing for a few rounds there was a VERY loose aggressive player there. He frequently raised every hand to 12 to go preflop with all sorts of holdings, absolutely anything. However he was not on tilt nor was he a fish, infact I observed him to be a very very good player making some good laydowns and punishing the weak players when he made a good hand - in the 15minutes I watched he got his stack from 200 dollars to 750. Which such frequent preflop raises there was a lot of action at the table and I wanted to be a part of it - so I went on the waiting list :) Even happier days arrived when I was allocated the seat directly to the left of the tough LAG - perfect. I sat down and bought in for 200 After a few rounds I busted a player when I flopped a set against his AA and got 200 from him, I played one hand against the LAG (which I layed down on the turn after a small investment into the pot) and was sat at about 380 dollars when the following hand came up.... In Late pos I am dealt<>? $$$&$$ .... The LAG (who has me covered - we are the 2 biggest stacks at the table) makes it 12 to go preflop and it is folded around to me. I consider reraising to isolate but seeing as I have position in this hand I decide just to flat call and take a flop, possibly enticing others into the pot as well, the small blind flat calls also and three of us take a Flop... !){ ???&???? ^^^^^^^^^^ The small blind is not the greatest player - he has 200 infront of him but he is BAD - frequently seen chasing hands down with no pot odds and involved with all sorts of pish. The Pot is around 40, the small blind leads out and bets 20, the tough LAG then flat calls and the action is on me....YOUR MOVE??? (And what would you do on subsequent streets depending on what cards fell?) Jez

[Bruise Pristene]

Re: You make the play....AKs on a LAG table! you have a pair of aces and a good kicker in a king. at worst someone could be holding AA at this point and therefore have 3 of a kind, but surely they would be raising pot in this instance, plus this is pretty unlikey since two aces are already acounted for. so i would definitely call to see the turn. what comes out on turn?

[Doddsy]

Re: You make the play....AKs on a LAG table! I would definetly raise the pot. You have top pair with top kicker and I wouldn't want anyone catching a flush with there being two clubs out there, but I would consider that the small blind has made trip 3's or two pair 3 9 if he is a bad player.

[GaF]

Re: You make the play....AKs on a LAG table! Jezza - You have a good hand - you don't know what LAG has - at the very least you have to test him - if he has nothing, sounds like he will fold. As Doddsy says, you don't want to give a cheap flush draw either. Ideal would be to see LAG fold, but keep the Small Blind in.......so you want to bet enough to try and get a fold from LAG, but keep Small Blind in the game (he might be lucky and have you beat, but sounds like he's a player worth taking on if you have AAK after the flop.....).....

[GreenPlasticWateringCan]

Re: You make the play....AKs on a LAG table! I would reraise here. You have top pair and top kicker, and not much of an idea what the other 2 opponents have. If you just call then unless the turn is an A or K then you still won't know whether your hand is good, and the turn could have improved one of your opponents hands. The pot is about 80 when it gets round to you to act. I'd maybe put in another 80 (i.e. call the 20 and bet another 60) and see what happens. You might win the pot right there which would be great. You aren't really giving good odds to try and hit the flush or hit trips if they have a pocket pair. And if you are reraised then you've got to think that you could be up against 2 pair or trips and might be beaten. The problem with only betting another 60 is that if the weak player calls then the LAG probably will be getting the odds he needs to call as well. And i'm not sure i'd want to put much more than 80 into the pot in case i do get reraised and have to throw the hand away. At least by betting, you get an idea where you stand though. I know that if you're reraised then you might have to throw your hand away and lose the 80 you put into the pot, but what if you call, the next card doesn't help you, and somebody bets 60? You would have no idea if your hand was the best or not. You could easily be up against a worse ace, or against trips, or a flush draw etc, so it would be a hard to make the correct decision. By raising on the flop you can get a much better idea what shape you are in, making your play after the turn / river much easier. Also if you were called by one or both opponents after reraising, then after the turn they might well check round to you, giving you the opportunity to see a free card (although whether you'd want to give a free card here would be debatable). Some final things worth mentioning. You don't really have much idea what the LAG has. His raise preflop doesn't necessarily mean he has a monster hand, and you say he is a good player who knows when to laydown. The fact he just called the raise after the flop means he could be on a flush draw, although he could have made trips and be slowplaying it. I'm not sure about that though - it's a bit risky with the 2 clubs on the board, although like you said he knows when to fold, so maybe if the third club came up he'd be able to get away from his hand (even if he had pocket aces). You say the player on the small blind was weak, but surely he wouldnt have played 93. If he was a fairly good player then he could have something like A9s or 99, but because you say he is quite weak then he could be playing 33 or A3. All of these hands would obviously have you beaten. Finally, your opponents probably won't have you on AKs because you just called preflop rather than reraising. Either opponent could be on AQ or AJ or something and because you didn't raise preflop they might think their hand is good. I look forward to hearing what hands they actually had, what you an they did, and how completely wrong i am

[guesswest]

Re: You make the play....AKs on a LAG table! Raise to 100, fold if reraised. If you get a flat call from the poor player put him on a flush draw and push him all in if the club doesn't fall on the turn. If you get a flat call from the LAG or from both players check it down/fold.

[mrmuzeman]

Re: You make the play....AKs on a LAG table! Whats all the $$$$ and ????? in your post Jez? I can only see an ace of spades where it says what your hole cards are. NB - just realised you said it was AKs in your title! But what is the third flop card? I cant see the middle card

[GaF]

Re: You make the play....AKs on a LAG table! lol - that's changed - wasn't like that earlier......

[Bruise Pristene]

Re: You make the play....AKs on a LAG table!

Whats all the $$$$ and ????? in your post Jez? I can only see an ace of spades where it says what your hole cards are. NB - just realised you said it was AKs in your title! But what is the third flop card? I cant see the middle card

its the smiley shortcut for cards

[GaF]

Re: You make the play....AKs on a LAG table! The Flop was A 9 3 Jez had AKs.....

[GaF]

Re: You make the play....AKs on a LAG table! 9 clubs in the flop.....

[mrmuzeman]

Re: You make the play....AKs on a LAG table! I raise for sure. Id bet the current pot here which I believe stands at 80, so I bet 80. 1 of thems trying to flush out I know it! :lol If they call then as long as its NOT a club I check/call unless they go big in which case Id have to think about folding for sure. I would shut down to a club though.

[Sir Puntalot]

Re: You make the play....AKs on a LAG table! Sorry guys, I've adjusted Jez' post - the cards became a bit fiddly admin wise, but should be all sorted now. If you see a the odd Jack of Spades pop up, do let me know though. :lol

[Markpl1]

Re: You make the play....AKs on a LAG table! I think you have to push here. You have top pair top kicker on a board which so far does not have any made straight or flushes. In fact there is no open ended str8 draw. My decision would be to raise the pot this will hopefully take down the pot here. Your real worry is that you can't put the lag on a hand and he could well have you beat but that will be a constant worry and the likelihood is you have him beat and you don't want to give him a free card to catch up. The poor player is likely flushing or maybe an ace with weaker kicker. If he wants to call give him the wrong odds. Now if you are re raised i think you have to put it down, your table image must be quite tight and re raise is telling you are beat IMO. The difficulty comes if you are called and who by. There are prob too many possibilites to run through but a club would be the real scare card and this leads to a check and call or check and fold situation.

[Jezza]

Re: You make the play....AKs on a LAG table! Well. I always say the most important thing to do in NL hold em is to consider what your opponent has and play accordingly. If you have a perfect read on your opponent he will find it impossible to ever win.....A bad player is someone who only considers what they have. So when the action got to me I have to think. First of all the bad players half pot bet. A lot of bad players bet weakly into large pots when they have a DRAW (they hope opponents will just call their bets rather than raise them so they see a very cheap next card to try and hit their draw, this is blindingly obvious usually and a very bad play). This player certainly fitted the bad category and the board has an obvious flush draw on it. Bad players also habitually check their monster flops to preflop raisers (I am not saying this is always a terrible play (although I dont like it usually), but to do it always is wrong and this is what bad players generally do) - for this reason I dont think he has a set of 9s or 3s (or even A9 or A3) but it is slightly possible he has a weak ace. I conclude that there is about a 90% chance of the draw for him and about 10% he has a worse ace, either way I want him in and I want to make him pay. Now the LAG. He can read his opponents and he surely knows mr small blind is on the flush draw probably, so why the flat call? If the board was rainbow then I would be a bit wary here - he could easily be slowplaying something to me. However it is not - the SB is clearly on a draw, so if he had 999 333 A9 or even AAA (all distinct possibilities) he would be RAISING before it got to me. A very aggressive player like him is not going to let a flush card come off for cheap, even if he has hit top set he would be raising here if he thought he had the best hand. I can only conclude he thinks he has the SB beaten but is worried I have him beaten, not wanting to put more money in the pot before he finds out - He must have A10 or AJ. Of course he could have the FD as well, I would allocate him 85% chance of the A10/J and 10% of the FD - there is the tiny 5% chance he is taking a risk and slowplaying something to me. So now I know (well, I trust my reads anyway) these holdings it comes to me and I must make my play. I think I have them both beat but I cannot slowplay here, I decide to raise the size of the pot. If I was to call the 20 there would be 100 in the middle so I put the 20+100 in, raising it to 120 to go exactly. I do this instead of going all in because of the slight possibility the LAG might come back over the top of me. If he does this I can still throw away my hand (as I would have to) - it would be totally unexpected but I cannot expose myself totally for 400 dollars as going all in would do. Note I am NOT raising to find out information (a terrible play IMO) - I am raising because I trust my reads, however should I get some unexpected information I can still get away with over 200 of my stack intact. As expected the SB thinks a bit then calls (FLUSH DRAW), the LAG folds. I cross my fingers and think "no club" and plan to bet the bad players last 80 on a non-club turn Turn : ;;;;;;;;;; Sweet, there is the tiny chance of A6 of course but I still really feel I have the lead and he has a draw - he checks I bet 80.50 (his stack exactly) and he pauses a bit before he calls River : :::::&:::: Perfect I think....he is all in so its an auto showdown, he flips over... !&!!!! !"- Exactly what we thought he had, his hand is dead and the 460 pot is shipped to my stack :drums. This is how a tight aggressive player should play a hand of poker like this, you must consider what your opponents have and make them pay to draw/if you have them beaten. A weak tight player would just have called along here, or maybe bet/raise smaller. DONT fall into that trap - many players on the net will chase with bad odds, you can make this pay handsomely for you. Of course if I got rivered (which to be fair will happen a lot, he will make the flush 1/3 of the time approx) it is going to cost me but that is why you have bankroll management. As for the LAG....he typed in nh in the chatbox and I queried him on his holding. He said he folded AJ and whilst I am liable to lie about what I have if Im asked in the chatbox afterwards :lol - I believe what he said and you have to give him credit for a good fold. If It had just been me and him in the pot his top pair would of course lost to my top pair better kicker but I highly doubt I would have won as much off him as I did off the bad player so I did not care I chose not to keep him in by raising. Jez

[mrmuzeman]

Re: You make the play....AKs on a LAG table! Nice pot Jez! I got it right priddy much :ok I had the same thing exactly happen to me last nite, unfortuntely the guy hit the flush on the river :o but the pot was only medium. Also Jez I feel it is necessary to abandon all natural reading ability you have on hands and all round sound strategy when you see that 6 of spades on the board, its a killer :loon

[Jezza]

Re: You make the play....AKs on a LAG table!

6 of spades

I knew you would love that part mate :lol

[CJB]

Re: You make the play....AKs on a LAG table! Excellent and informative post - although how you can do such detailed analysis in the short amount of time given is beyond me. Is it fair to say you just have to go with your first instinct and trust it.

[Plow-King]

Re: You make the play....AKs on a LAG table! I agree cjb. How the fook jez can weigh all that up in his head in the time he has and make a rational conclusion and decision on the turn of every card is amazing and a great credit to him. How much do you charge for lessons jezza??:notworthy I have much to learn If I am to enter the shady world of cash games.

[laidbackbloke]

Re: You make the play....AKs on a LAG table! Excellent post Jez :ok