Mourinho Sacked!

[StevieDay1983]

I was going to post this in the standard manager changes thread but felt it was likely to require its own thread. Interested to hear what you all think about this decision? Manchester United were still in the Champions League, FA Cup, and fighting for a top four place. Clearly, there's issues behind the scenes. I can see both sides. It can be argued that Mourinho wasn't backed as he should have been in the summer when he wanted to bolster his defensive unit but you also have to question why the board would let him have millions to spend when he's wasted so much of it.

Just take a look at his signings...

Eric Bailly, Henrikh Mkhitaryan, Paul Pogba, Zlata Ibrahimovic, Victor Lindelof, Romelu Lukaku, Nemanja Matic, Alexis Sanchez, Diogo Dalot, Fred, and Lee Grant. How many of those players does he pick regularly? For whatever reason, his signings rarely work out and when you look at those names they should.

Personally, I think Mourinho's track record speaks for itself but there's clearly problems with the hierarchy. The club hasn't been the same since David Gill left. That's the real issue. Ed Woodward is repeatedly making poor decisions on the football front. Yes, he might be making a success on the commercial side but United are a shadow of the giant they once were. That's down to Woodward. Is Mourinho blameless? No. He could have helped himself. I think him losing Rui Faria also can't be understated. Not sure Michael Carrick and Kieran McKenna have been worthy replacements.

What do you guys think?

[StevieDay1983]

A few bookies are starting to offer markets on the next Manchester United manager. The club has confirmed it will be an external appointment but only on a caretaker basis. 888Sport is offering the following...

Zinedine Zidane - 3.50

Antonio Conte - 7.50

Mauricio Pochettino - 11.00

Laurent Blanc - 11.00

Ryan Giggs - 21.00

Diego Simeone - 21.00

Carlo Ancelotti - 21.00

Didier Deschamps - 26.00

Brendan Rodgers - 34.00

Arsene Wenger - 41.00

David Moyes - 151.00

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[Sir Puntalot]

He had to go, his style is so outdated. You can’t park the bus anymore, It’s like a big company not having a social media presence and relying on the high street.  

Caretaker will be from outside the club - Harry Redknapp until end of season maybe?  

[StevieDay1983]

1 hour ago, Sir Puntalot said:

He had to go, his style is so outdated. You can’t park the bus anymore, It’s like a big company not having a social media presence and relying on the high street.  

Caretaker will be from outside the club - Harry Redknapp until end of season maybe?  

Yeah, I think it was a relationship doomed from the start. They sacked Louis Van Gaal because they stated his management style was archaic but then appointed Mourinho. They are doing the same now. First two names linked with the permanent position set for the summer are Mauricio Pochettino (fair enough) and Diego Simeone. Simeone?! He's like Mourinho MK II! Except he's won even less and has less Premier League experience.

If I was the owner of a club like United I would be building something bigger. Their current approach isn't working in terms of raking the big money in. Did someone say they've lost £1bn since 2005? Not sure if that's true but wouldn't surprise me. The mistake they made was not going for Guardiola or Klopp when they could have. Pochettino is a decent option but he's not got that trophy-winning mentality. That may come over time but does what he have at Tottenham offer more security and potential?

Until the owners depart or install someone with a footballing brain as a sporting director then the club is going to continue to make the same mistakes. The Glazer family and Ed Woodward don't have a clue. You can already tell from their rhetoric that they haven't learned anything from this episode. If you're a Manchester United fan I'd prepare for more days of darkness yet.

[Tiffy]

29 minutes ago, StevieDay1983 said:

Yeah, I think it was a relationship doomed from the start. They sacked Louis Van Gaal because they stated his management style was archaic but then appointed Mourinho. They are doing the same now. First two names linked with the permanent position set for the summer are Mauricio Pochettino (fair enough) and Diego Simeone. Simeone?! He's like Mourinho MK II! Except he's won even less and has less Premier League experience.

If I was the owner of a club like United I would be building something bigger. Their current approach isn't working in terms of raking the big money in. Did someone say they've lost £1bn since 2005? Not sure if that's true but wouldn't surprise me. The mistake they made was not going for Guardiola or Klopp when they could have. Pochettino is a decent option but he's not got that trophy-winning mentality. That may come over time but does what he have at Tottenham offer more security and potential?

Until the owners depart or install someone with a footballing brain as a sporting director then the club is going to continue to make the same mistakes. The Glazer family and Ed Woodward don't have a clue. You can already tell from their rhetoric that they haven't learned anything from this episode. If you're a Manchester United fan I'd prepare for more days of darkness yet.

Couldn't agree more Stevie d. The problems lie at the top, added that there is no long term strategy at UTD, then they aren't going anywhere for a while.

Poch won't leave Spurs now will he? Spurs are on the brink of becoming a bigger club than Utd. I wouldn't fancy any of that lot if I was a Utd fan. Get Eddie Howe in!

They need a manager who can play a modern, atttacking style of football.

 

[thfc]

As long as it's not Poch then I don't care who gets it.  As Tiffy says, spurs are at the present time a bigger club so I can't see him moving now.

Presumably the club have been talking to someone behind the scenes before sacking him.  Blanc is now the favourite although I don't see him changing their fortunes anytime soon.  Not that I have any problem with that

[allyhibs]

Ole Solskjaer till the end of the season would be my shout

[Tiffy]

Big Sam is my shout! Hell be able to keep them up

[StevieDay1983]

19 hours ago, allyhibs said:

Ole Solskjaer till the end of the season would be my shout

As a Cardiff fan, I am stunned that they've gone for Solskjaer. He was woeful for us. Admittedly, we were in an even worse predicament back then than they are now but still. The problem remains the owners. Sir Alex Ferguson always told his players that if they went into management they should choose the owners, not the club. Even though Solskjaer was shockingly bad for us with awful player recruitment (he openly admitted he used Football Manager to search for players), lacklustre motivation, sub par man management, and deplorable tactics I like him as a guy. I was excited by his appointment initially. Were we just a one-off bad case for him or did we expose his flaws?

I might seem a bit biased due to my club's experience of him but I think we can rule United out of the Champions League next season and I imagine they'll be eliminated in the last 16 this season. I feel it's going to get worse before it gets better for United fans.

I also agree with @thfc and @Tiffy about Pochettino. Tottenham are on the cusp of taking the next step up. In terms of building a legacy, Daniel Levy is doing a cracking job. He's taken his fair share of criticism for lack of spending but he's being proved right for doing it now. I'd be very excited if I was a Tottenham fan and if Pochettino has any sense he'll stay exactly where he is unless something bad goes down at the club.

[Tiffy]

Couldn't agree more Stevie D. They should have bought Big Sam in to steady the ship.

@thfc As a LUTON fan, I was close to tears back in mid 80's when Spurs seduced our manager, David Pleat. LUTON were a well established top flight side, going on to finish 8th, and grace Wembley in 3 cup finals, (beating Arsenal in 88!). I've never forgiven them, especially when they came in shortly after and nabbed our home grown , England U21 left back, Mitchell "Spider" Thomas (I went to school with his brother by the way)

Just remember that life evens things out eventually, and Karma will always get you in the end

[StevieDay1983]

12 hours ago, Tiffy said:

Couldn't agree more Stevie D. They should have bought Big Sam in to steady the ship.

@thfc As a LUTON fan, I was close to tears back in mid 80's when Spurs seduced our manager, David Pleat. LUTON were a well established top flight side, going on to finish 8th, and grace Wembley in 3 cup finals, (beating Arsenal in 88!). I've never forgiven them, especially when they came in shortly after and nabbed our home grown , England U21 left back, Mitchell "Spider" Thomas (I went to school with his brother by the way)

Just remember that life evens things out eventually, and Karma will always get you in the end

Totally forgot your Luton affiliation, @Tiffy! I still hurt from that 2-1 defeat we suffered to you in 1994 in the FA Cup 5th Round. Never forget John Hartson celebrating in front of us. Ironic that 12 years later he'd be back at Ninian Park playing for West Brom and receiving undoubtedly the worst abuse I've ever seen a human being take on a football pitch that was just within the bounds of acceptability. Speaking of karma! 

[thinkpink63]

On 12/18/2018 at 11:28 AM, StevieDay1983 said:

A few bookies are starting to offer markets on the next Manchester United manager. The club has confirmed it will be an external appointment but only on a caretaker basis. 888Sport is offering the following...

Zinedine Zidane - 3.50

Antonio Conte - 7.50

Mauricio Pochettino - 11.00

Laurent Blanc - 11.00

Ryan Giggs - 21.00

Diego Simeone - 21.00

Carlo Ancelotti - 21.00

Didier Deschamps - 26.00

Brendan Rodgers - 34.00

Arsene Wenger - 41.00

David Moyes - 151.00

@Mindfulness, @Pep004, @MaliMisko12, @betcatalog, @sajtion, @godofhorses, @Tiffy, @waynecoyne, @The Sexless Innkeeper, @Magic0024, @malabgd, @Duke_Tm, @dogmeister, @Arkadi Manucharov, @derbent, @fat, @allyhibs, @6avin24, @discipline, @the bastardian, @Bronxie, @Bett, @KikoCy, @teddybear3011, @markus808, @allthethings, @Kenton Schweppes, @vasilli07, @Dylan Lynch, @neilovan, @JKos, @zemo91, @kulikTS, @mrclubbie, @Judeksi, @Henind666, @Teodore, @kilkenny1, @newjack, @PokerWolf1, @Dave1X2, @real55555, @jazzman02, @Ameer13, @Gedkip, @mcsilks, @MangoTheThird, @Roy The Boy, @DonPaulo, @Duckets, @yossa6133, @sjuesju, @dylanphan, @thfc, @Dboston, @Dr. Florida192, @money44, @1moregoal, @ggm31v, @Roy The Boy, @thinkpink63, and @AndreBR, any names that stand out for you all there?

I think that the glory days of Mourinho ended after the "Triplete" with Internazionale Milan, his real last masterpiece.

After that in the 3 years in Madrid he wasn't that successful, considering the stellar squad he had. Just one La Liga title and no CL finals. After him Ancelotti and Zidane won four with more or less the same players. And he brought the polemics against everyone and everything to a never seen before level: the games vs Barcelona were bloody affairs, more wars than football, and he almost cracked the Spain national team too. I can't forget when he pressed a finger in the eye of poor Tito Vilanova (R.I.P.) coming unseen from behind. A very coward act.

He had a great comeback at Chelsea in the first 2 seasons followed by an inglorious season and a sack, with Conte winning the title next with the same squad.

And considering the budget he had, his top salary and the full power at United his experience was again far below the expectations. An Europa League win was his top achievement, that isn't bad, but let's not forget that he also cashed again something from his luck when Celta de Vigo failed an incredible very easy goal in the stoppage time of the reverse leg of the semifinal.

Oh well, luck is a part of many wins sometimes. I'm an AC Milan lifetime fan and can't forget the fog of Beograd, November 1988, with the legendary team led by Arrigo Sacchi 1-0 down against Red Star and with ten men in the reverse leg (1-1 in San Siro). Remove that fog and the story would have been much different.

I never liked Mourinho as a man (did you notice? ) and I think he made his masterpieces with Porto and Inter, on which he built an overrated career following next.

About him I think he will go back to Madrid. For an unknown reason (to me at least) Florentino Perez is still in love with him. Most of the players that were against him there are gone or will, so that's a possibility.

Or he could go back to Internazionale, where the fans still adore him. But have no idea what the thoughts of Mr Suning, the chinese owner of the club, are.

Rodgers, Wenger and Moyes as next managers..lol..God Save the Queen and United just in case..

Pochettino more likely moving to Madrid if the spot becomes available for him.

Ancelotti would gladly move to Manchester but I don't see him leaving Napoli so soon, but you never know.

Zidane had a huge CL success at Real Madrid and poor domestic results. He knew every breath of Madrid's camp when replaced Benitez, am not sure he could feel so at ease by the Red Devils.

Simeone plays a fighting football that couldn't be appreciated that much at Old Trafford right now, after the Mourinho's era, that didn't deliver results and sparkling football. But I would be curious to see him in another big club, since the man knows his stuff. Hey, the Colchoneros never had that great squad in last years, barring a couple of players. He really got the maximum out of them.

Blanc and Deschamps look unlikely to me.

Conte wants to come back to PL, that's his first choice. But also here his football and managerial style is rather similar to Mourinho's one. Don't see a change in that direction. even if I would add that the Special One has lost with the years the capability he had to gel his players around him always and against the world, as in his first Chelsea and Internazionale. Conte still has this capability, so far..

Finally we could be all surprised by an unpredictable choice like the one made by PSG with Tuchel, with a not much "exposed" manager on big media. Time will tell soon. "Baby Face" Solskjaer could anyway stay until June. He's always the "super sub" finally there and the man of the 1999 CL final, with that legendary comeback in the injury time.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by thinkpink63

[Tiffy]

@StevieDay1983

oh my god, I was at that game! It was my first trip back to Cardiff since I was born there.

We took the National Express from LUTON and arrived in Cardiff about 12. The plan was to jump into a cab & find a pub near the ground. It was freezing, and we jumped into a cab to the ground

"Can you take us to a pub please" We asked the driver

"No, my advice to you is to get to the ground and stay there" said the driver!

He dropped us at the ground. "Can you pick us up here after" we asked, "No, you needn't think I am coming anywhere near here after the game" he replied. 

Christ - What had we come to? It was 3 hours to KO & bloody freezing.

We were in the main stand, as opposed to the terrace. I remember Hartson getting showered with coins every time he went near the touch line. After the game the Cardiff fans tried getting on the pitch & caused some aggro with the police. They then started ripping their seats out and throwing them at the police horses, which by then, were on the pitch. The away fans were being kept in, whilst the ground was being cleared. The Cardiff fans went around to the away end and started throwing bricks into the open (terrace) away end. LUTON fans pushed forward to get away from the missiles, and as they moved forward the police thought they were trying to get on the pitch, so they tear gassed them!

I am watching this from the stand at the side, thinking, I have got to get back to the bus station through this! In front of us was the family section, and I said to a young kid "Do you want to sell me your scarf? "What do you mean?" He said, "Well, I've got to walk back through this lot, and if I have your scarf, I might blend in a bit". I handed over a fiver, and put it on and we kept our heads down & mouths shut as we walked out. I know why the taxi driver didn't want to come back now! 

Anyway we made it back in one piece, and I have a funny story to tell about that day. We lost in the semis against Chelsea at Wembley that season.

My next and last visit to Ninian Park, was when we holidaying in the Forest of Dean.Cardiff were playing Birmingham, and we sat in the Bob Bank. I told my wife, don't speak, as the whole stand erupted into Men Of Harlech, and and I felt totally uncomfortable! We kept quiet, but enjoyed the rest of the game.

It certainly was an intimidating ground, full of nutters! One thing that I wanted to know, is why was it called the Bob Bank? I'm presuming it's similar to the Bobbers at LUTON, so called because it used to cost a bob to get in!

Good times, Great memories 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Tiffy

[StevieDay1983]

2 hours ago, Tiffy said:

@StevieDay1983

oh my god, I was at that game! It was my first trip back to Cardiff since I was born there.

Hang on, you were born in Cardiff?! I didn't know that! I'm sure you've not mentioned that to me before! Heath Hospital boy, is it? Or were you old school and born in St David's... or a house... or a barn? 

[Tiffy]

Yeah I'm sure I've mentioned it on here before! I think we lived in a flat in Glossop Terrace, although I will have to find out which hospital I was born in. 

I think we only lived there for a year or so, I was bought up in LUTON, they ended up in the 1st division when I started going to watch them. I have spent thee last 17years in Sussex, and they have also gone to the top division since I started watching them.

I have now moved to Devon, and am watching Torquay, I just hope they are ready for the big time now I am watching them!

ill make it back to Cardiff for a visit one day Stevie, and we can meet up for a pint of Brains

[Roy The Boy]

On 18/12/2018 at 10:08 AM, StevieDay1983 said:

I was going to post this in the standard manager changes thread but felt it was likely to require its own thread. Interested to hear what you all think about this decision? Manchester United were still in the Champions League, FA Cup, and fighting for a top four place. Clearly, there's issues behind the scenes. I can see both sides. It can be argued that Mourinho wasn't backed as he should have been in the summer when he wanted to bolster his defensive unit but you also have to question why the board would let him have millions to spend when he's wasted so much of it.

Just take a look at his signings...

Eric Bailly, Henrikh Mkhitaryan, Paul Pogba, Zlata Ibrahimovic, Victor Lindelof, Romelu Lukaku, Nemanja Matic, Alexis Sanchez, Diogo Dalot, Fred, and Lee Grant. How many of those players does he pick regularly? For whatever reason, his signings rarely work out and when you look at those names they should.

Personally, I think Mourinho's track record speaks for itself but there's clearly problems with the hierarchy. The club hasn't been the same since David Gill left. That's the real issue. Ed Woodward is repeatedly making poor decisions on the football front. Yes, he might be making a success on the commercial side but United are a shadow of the giant they once were. That's down to Woodward. Is Mourinho blameless? No. He could have helped himself. I think him losing Rui Faria also can't be understated. Not sure Michael Carrick and Kieran McKenna have been worthy replacements.

What do you guys think?

Mourinho Does have pedigree but he also has previous in falling out with players, also when he was spending millions at Chelsea, only really United could compete, now with him at United you have City, Liverpool, Chelsea Spurs and Arsenal all capable of spending big, also I was not happy when they appointed him as my view is he has a short term vision, as a United fan you never leave games early under Mourinho you didn't wanna stay, I find it strange that they appointed Solskjaer for 6 months as interim, it smacks of trying to get Pochettino (which would be a great choice if they give him rebuild time) at all cost in the summer, me I would of selected a manager I wanted, appointed him now and said you have an 8 month pre season to get ready for 2019-20 season, It's a bit desperate there at the moment, and tbh I'm not sure who would want to take the job on,  I think your boys will really fancy their chances this weekend @StevieDay1983

[StevieDay1983]

31 minutes ago, Roy The Boy said:

Mourinho Does have pedigree but he also has previous in falling out with players, also when he was spending millions at Chelsea, only really United could compete, now with him at United you have City, Liverpool, Chelsea Spurs and Arsenal all capable of spending big, also I was not happy when they appointed him as my view is he has a short term vision, as a United fan you never leave games early under Mourinho you didn't wanna stay, I find it strange that they appointed Solskjaer for 6 months as interim, it smacks of trying to get Pochettino (which would be a great choice if they give him rebuild time) at all cost in the summer, me I would of selected a manager I wanted, appointed him now and said you have an 8 month pre season to get ready for 2019-20 season, It's a bit desperate there at the moment, and tbh I'm not sure who would want to take the job on,  I think your boys will really fancy their chances this weekend @StevieDay1983

It's a weird one, Roy. Some of our fans were naively thinking we'd have United if Mourinho had stayed but I wasn't convinced. He seemed to thrive playing against fellow sides that play gritty football. I think if we can kill the game, as negative as that sounds, then Solskjaer has always come across as a manager with little versatility. One of his main problems at Cardiff was an inability to change the system to adapt to the game. If we were playing them in 2-3 months then I'd fancy our chances but I think the feel good factor in the dressing room will see United play well in spite of Solskjaer's game management. I'm sadly anticipating a 2-3 goal defeat.

[Roy The Boy]

21 hours ago, StevieDay1983 said:

It's a weird one, Roy. Some of our fans were naively thinking we'd have United if Mourinho had stayed but I wasn't convinced. He seemed to thrive playing against fellow sides that play gritty football. I think if we can kill the game, as negative as that sounds, then Solskjaer has always come across as a manager with little versatility. One of his main problems at Cardiff was an inability to change the system to adapt to the game. If we were playing them in 2-3 months then I'd fancy our chances but I think the feel good factor in the dressing room will see United play well in spite of Solskjaer's game management. I'm sadly anticipating a 2-3 goal defeat.

Not sure About the Solskjaer appointment to be honest, it is a very strange one and I think a little differently to you here @StevieDay1983 I think if Cardiff go for it they will sneak it, there is no magic wand to be waved at United to suddenly be an attacking force and their creativity is a little low