Racing Chat Thread

[Jimmy2shoes]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread SHOCKING ride by Danny Brock in the 7:30 Newmarket. What was he thinking, ABSOLUTELY Piss POOR. Full Result [TABLE=class: tbl t3 mobile-collapse, width: 100%]

[TR] [TH=align: center]Pos[/TH] [TH=align: center]Dist[/TH] [TH=class: ixt]Horse[/TH] [TH=class: ixt]Trainer[/TH] [TH=align: center]Age[/TH] [TH=align: center]Weight[/TH] [TH=class: ixt]Jockey[/TH] [TH=class: mobile-hdn, align: center]SP[/TH] [/TR] [TR] [TD=align: center]1st (12)[/TD] [TD=align: center][/TD] [TD=class: ixt]3 Meet Me Halfway[/TD] [TD=class: ixt]C F Wall[/TD] [TD=align: center]4[/TD] [TD=align: center]9-6[/TD] [TD=class: ixt]Ashley Morgan (3)[/TD] [TD=class: mobile-hdn, align: center]7/1[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=align: center]2nd (10)[/TD] [TD=align: center]1[/TD] [TD=class: ixt]11 Secret Success[/TD] [TD=class: ixt]P F I Cole[/TD] [TD=align: center]4[/TD] [TD=align: center]8-8 t[/TD] [TD=class: ixt]Martin Lane[/TD] [TD=class: mobile-hdn, align: center]10/1[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=align: center]3rd (4)[/TD] [TD=align: center]nk[/TD] [TD=class: ixt]8 Athletic[/TD] [TD=class: ixt]A Reid[/TD] [TD=align: center]5[/TD] [TD=align: center]8-13 v[/TD] [TD=class: ixt]Danny Brock (5)[/TD] [TD=class: mobile-hdn, align: center]13/8f[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/results/01-08-2014/newmarket/result/632063/ngk-spark-plugs-handicap/video

[mowgli77]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread

In my opinion, it's all about the race set-up with M Johnston horses. They are pretty much all front-runners, or ran that way at least, and if a race has little rival pace on then they can win from the front even carrying perceived high marks or such. Fanning is the man for it. It's as simple as that for me.

Very true, Fanning is excellent from the front and many of the 2 year olds are just so much stronger than their rivals. Problem is he does well with many at 2 but they don't seem to go on or they go to Bin Suroor and Godolphin and get ruined. Johnston's horses were in terrible form early in the season, either not fit or a possible bug in the yard then he just picked up and started firing in winner after winner. He does seem to set most of his horses up for prominent rides or make all rides and sometimes when they kick on you just can't peg them back, more so in the maiden races with inexperienced rivals taking a while for the penny to drop.

[Bathtime For Rupert]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread

Very true' date=' Fanning is excellent from the front and many of the 2 year olds are just so much stronger than their rivals. Problem is he does well with many at 2 but they don't seem to go on or they go to Bin Suroor and Godolphin and get ruined. Johnston's horses were in terrible form early in the season, either not fit or a possible bug in the yard then he just picked up and started firing in winner after winner. He does seem to set most of his horses up for prominent rides or make all rides and sometimes when they kick on you just can't peg them back, more so in the maiden races with inexperienced rivals taking a while for the penny to drop.[/quote'] Yeah I definitely get that and understand trainers go in and out of form but I just find his handicappers can be so in and out it's virtually impossible to know what to expect. It's my own call and for that reason I don't back his very often. I just find it very difficult to know how they're going to run!

[BillyHills]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread Think we had an intelligent discussion in here just then. With Johnston by his own admission his horses suit particular tracks. He loves Hamilton and Goodwood for instance, courses that are stiff and the horses need every yard. I just think when he's in form his horses are fitter than most and hence they can go off from the front and last out more often than not. He reminds me a lot of the old Martin Pipe hurdlers, some of them were not the best horses in the race but were the fittest and nicked a fair few races from the front.

[mowgli77]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread

Think we had an intelligent discussion in here just then. With Johnston by his own admission his horses suit particular tracks. He loves Hamilton and Goodwood for instance, courses that are stiff and the horses need every yard. I just think when he's in form his horses are fitter than most and hence they can go off from the front and last out more often than not. He reminds me a lot of the old Martin Pipe hurdlers, some of them were not the best horses in the race but were the fittest and nicked a fair few races from the front.

There is one performance this season that stood out for me, probably because I was stood at the side of Mark Johnston in the betting hall at Pontefract watching one of his run at Musselburgh on 23rd May. The horse was Bahamian Art and she ran over 5f in the 6.40pm Musselburgh race. Joe Fanning had gone up there to ride rather than the short trip to Pontefract and was on board. She burst out of the stalls well, got to the front and was leading until the furlong pole. So many times you see him kick on and wrap up the race but this time she went backwards, finished last and was beaten over 9 lengths. It could just be that she isn't very good, she's finished 5th on 3 occasions now but his horses were not in great form at this time. Johnston looked disappointed and walked off to the parade ring at Ponty. She could be one to look out for now he's in better form, she went off 11-10f and 6-5f on her first 2 starts.

[Jimmy2shoes]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread Broxbourne was a good horse trained by Mr Johnston, but i feel he asks 1 or 2 races too much from them and can over-cook horses, that in turn can have a big affect on them and leave a deep racing scar, they never return the same and then he gets shot of them. From what i understand Broxbourne is now with Nicky Henderson, dare say Nicky will find something for her come the chase season. http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/profiles/horse/588758/broxbourne-ire

[Toast]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread What are your thoughts on today's Nassau Stakes? For me the race revolves around the French horse. Thankfully, there are a few negative comments in today's press. Trainer worried about the going and the bend, no French horse ever won the race and is rated the same as the o Brien fav, who will surely find the trip on the sharp side. Also a few positive mentions regarding the Stoute and Gosden nags, which will surely inflate the price with the usually myopic British public. But, I can't understand why Narniyn is not clear fav. Only form is on softish ground, reason being she's only raced on softish ground, but, going off her sire, Dubawi, she can only improve for faster ground. Trainer is worried about the course. Why? A glance through the top 10 earning progeny of Dubawi shows that those who have run at Goodwood or similar courses have either won there or run with credit. Dubawi won on the course aswell. She has the best pieces of form in the book. Unbeaten over 10f, has beaten colts on a few occasions and her 2l 4th to Spiritjim in a group 1 lto, has been franked by the improving Noble Mission finishing 2nd again in the Munich derby, giving weight. Soumillon comes over for the 1 ride, when there could have been easier pickings in France.take the sp.

[mowgli77]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread I've just had an ante post bet on next years 2000 Guineas and backed Basateen at 36.0 and 32.0 on Betfair so I'm hoping Hail Clodius can frank that form later this afternoon at Donny. Basateen was really sweaty behind the back legs at Donny and spent all the time in the pre parade ring walking round with a hard on so to put in the performance he did was excellent. Pulled clear of the rest and won going away, improving in the last furlong as Hanagan has mentioned. I'm wanting a price on the Derby but nothing available at the moment.

[Aidymac]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread

What are your thoughts on today's Nassau Stakes? For me the race revolves around the French horse. Thankfully, there are a few negative comments in today's press. Trainer worried about the going and the bend, no French horse ever won the race and is rated the same as the o Brien fav, who will surely find the trip on the sharp side. Also a few positive mentions regarding the Stoute and Gosden nags, which will surely inflate the price with the usually myopic British public. But, I can't understand why Narniyn is not clear fav. Only form is on softish ground, reason being she's only raced on softish ground, but, going off her sire, Dubawi, she can only improve for faster ground. Trainer is worried about the course. Why? A glance through the top 10 earning progeny of Dubawi shows that those who have run at Goodwood or similar courses have either won there or run with credit. Dubawi won on the course aswell. She has the best pieces of form in the book. Unbeaten over 10f, has beaten colts on a few occasions and her 2l 4th to Spiritjim in a group 1 lto, has been franked by the improving Noble Mission finishing 2nd again in the Munich derby, giving weight. Soumillon comes over for the 1 ride, when there could have been easier pickings in France.take the sp.

Although Dubawi ran most of his races on good ground, his progeny seems to do extremely well on heavy. This French horse is not certain to enjoy the ground at all, it has to be taken on trust. [ATTACH]6197[/ATTACH] Hard to see that image, but the results are here -> http://www.drawbias.com/sirestats.html

[BillyHills]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread Totally agree with Toast, i cant work out why Narniyn is not the fav either. Its not unusual to get a bit of value on these raiders though, many times they seem to be under rated and the market formed for the expectancy of money for the usual suspects (O'Brien, Hannon, Gosden, Stoute etc...) rather than bare form.

[Toast]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread Aidymac Thats an interesting stat that surprised me. Just going back through his progeny, horses to have won on ground at least good at group 1 and 2 level include, maki, monterroso, night of thunder, al Kazeem, aljameer, afsare to say the least. Wannabe Yours won a group 3 at the course yesterday in a fast time. Of course, going reports aren't really that accurate, so the times can only be compared to the rest of the card and previous runnings of the races. Out of interest, how often is that page updated?

[DasBoot]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread I could be by Moses Kiptanui out of Zola Budd but if I had never run barefoot on a dirt track I'd struggle. Narniyn did well to finish 2nd in a weak Group 1 on a track and ground alien to her. If that race had been run at Ascot on good/soft she would've won by 5 lengths.

[Toast]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread Jockey error IMO Dasboot. A lack of knowledge of the course lost her the race. He came there fast, early and on the inside, most of the races this week on the round course were won by horses coming late and wide. Still it's black type for her.

[Aidymac]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread He gave the horse the exact same ride Hughes gave Pether's Moon. If the horse was good enough, she would have won. The best horse won.

[mowgli77]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread

Jockey error IMO Dasboot. A lack of knowledge of the course lost her the race. He came there fast' date=' early and on the inside, most of the races this week on the round course were won by horses coming late and wide. Still it's black type for her.[/quote'] I wouldn't blame the jockey on this occasion, he could have sat for longer, watched Sultanina go past and then had to give momentum and a head start when trying to make up ground in the last furlong or so. She is a good horse that would have probably run better on softer ground but she was just outbattled by a horse that stays further than 10f and although you don't always expect stamina to be an issue over 10f it was today. Compare how Sultanina finished the race to the favourite, one was all out, the other was full of running. If we are talking jockey error then look no further than James Doyle on Kings Fete. I watched the race on mute and then watched it again to see if commentary had picked up on just how far back he was sitting and how long he waited to make his move. The best horse in the race was probably 2nd on this occasion, given far too much to do and if making his effort from a more midfield position during the last 1f-2f he'd have won. Similar to the ride given to Eagle Top last week by Buick. Spencer would be hung, drawn and quartered for rides like these.

[DasBoot]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread I disagree that the route he took cost her the race as the reason that a lot of horses that won this week that came from wide was because of no room up the inside. I also disagree that the best horse won the race. I didn't have a bet in the race btw.

[DasBoot]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread As for Kings Fete, Mick Fitzgerald said a most peculiar thing afterwards in that today they wanted to teach him how to run in a proper race and that "it's not about today". Does that not sound like schooling in public? Whatever, that was a ridiculous thing to say, imo. The commentators were saying what a great race he ran but Gosden was asked later on, I detected that he wasn't happy with the ride given by Doyle.

[Aidymac]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread The gosden horse stayed on powerfully, beat the French horse fair and square, French horse got a dream run up the inside of Venus too.. and the o brien horse couldn't keep up.. Please tell me what horse was the best horse in the race then? Statements like that annoy me, it was a brilliant performance from sultanina

[DasBoot]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread Ok, "the best horse on the day". As for a brilliant performance, it was a sub standard Group 1 won by a horse who stayed better than the runner up.

[Aidymac]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread It's true what the owner of sultanina said before the race today. Nick luck said "many will say this is a poor renewal of the race" and her reply was "well tell them try win one then". Far from vintage but still won a Group 1 in impressive fashion. Still haven't heard the name of the best horse

[DasBoot]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread You know what was impressive? Frankel's 2000 Guineas. Hawk Wing's Lockinge. Lester Piggott's ride on Royal Academy. The way that all the jockeys got together and let Frankie Dettori win on Fujiyama Crest. Narniyn was the best horse in The Nassau- FACT.

[calculus]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread DasBoot, think your doing a big disservice to Sultanina, she's beaten what's been put in front of her on 3 of her 4 starts, who knows what the ceiling of her ability is. It looked like Sultanina won fair and square (to me anyway - maybe I missed something) and therefore on all available evidence she was the best horse in the Nassau.

[erhaab1965]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread

But that wasn't your argument at all. Jimmy i agree some things are not fair but i wasn't replying to those examples, stay out of Erhaab's crusade if i was you before you get recruited. My last point on a pointless argument: It always amazes me how some people absolutely appear to hate the betting industry from top to bottom, moan all the time about how bent it is, how corrupt jockeys are, every trainer is doping horses, bookies screwing us over every day and yet continue to bet on horses. It beggars belief it really does, it must be an addiction or something. My advice is to walk away and take up gardening although i suppose they would moan about the weather then and say thats fixed?

We are all adults on here , no one is recruiting anyone , they are all old enough to make their own decisions and say what they want ! I don't hate the betting industry , if anything I respect it. But that's not to say some aspect of it isn't bent. Like reduced SPs , betting to 160% , shortening shorts seconds after withdrawal to increase the R4 , 2 places on some ante post markets when on the day 8 or more horses line up , offering ante post prices on horses who definitely are not turning up ( as soon as informed money is placed on a horse the prices are slashed within seconds , mug money on an ante post non runner they keep the horse in the market for days)........... Corrupt jockeys , even the younger members on here with less than 10 years interest will name over a dozen jockeys involved in corruption....it happens , fact. Doping horses ....it happens , fact. Its probably reported more these days than ever before . Some trainers and owners will do anything to get an edge. Remember the Royal Ascot meeting about 20 years ago when a horse was allegedly shot with a sonic beam when in front ? What's wrong with talking about these aspects of the sport ? I don't belong or pretend to belong to the establishment/upper class. I don't wear a panama hat to the bookies , I wear a baseball cap. I don't eat cucumber sandwiches and drink Earl Gray tea in a fine china cup with my little finger waggling in the air . I eat Greggs pasties and coffee in a paper cup. You may have accepted defeat and willingly lay down and let them trample all over you , that's fine its ip to you , but don't encourage others to follow suit. You may think you are part of the establishment , just like the Racing media. You have been brain washed into thinking its wrong to say anything negative towards the sport. Like Jimmy says , the sport of the working class ...football , pundits say it as it is , a players plays poor they say so. Same with the ordinary public and newspapers. With racing , nobody says anything negative. On Racingpost.com if there is a story about anything negative , they will disable the comments and the story is often not as severe as it should be. On C4/BBC Racing they all suck up to people in racing . If some body dies or retires , they are described as one of the hardest working people or one of the nicest you could ever meet. poor rides are overlooked and not mentioned. What we talk about on here is not going to change anything , but change will happen if enough people with the same ideology club together and make thing happen. You will remember the miners strike , nurses strike , Poll Tax protests. It just takes the small people to rise up against the bigwigs / corporations. You suggesting I walk away and take up gardening is condescending. You wish to mock me in front all the Punters Lounge members ! You say I deserve a flipping medal for highlighting a mistake in a betting market , what was your aim in that remark ? To put me down ?

[erhaab1965]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread

As for Kings Fete, Mick Fitzgerald said a most peculiar thing afterwards in that today they wanted to teach him how to run in a proper race and that "it's not about today". Does that not sound like schooling in public? Whatever, that was a ridiculous thing to say, imo. The commentators were saying what a great race he ran but Gosden was asked later on, I detected that he wasn't happy with the ride given by Doyle.

I was going to post the same. The commentator said he was 20 lengths behind in last . Obviously the jockey didn't know at the time but had he been 10 lengths off the leader he may have won. Nothing bad was said by C4 or M Fitzgerald....typical ar5e kissing by the media.

[erhaab1965]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread

You know what was impressive? Frankel's 2000 Guineas. Hawk Wing's Lockinge. Lester Piggott's ride on Royal Academy. The way that all the jockeys got together and let Frankie Dettori win on Fujiyama Crest. Narniyn was the best horse in The Nassau- FACT.

I said this before on here , with no response. I also said that I had never seen Pat Eddery try so hard on a horse which eventually came second. Think he was the only one who didn't want Frankie to achieve that feat.

[Toast]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread Erhaab, wasnt the laser beam jobbie aimed at Cacoethes in the international at York? Regarding bent, where's there's money, there's corruption. Those tote returns since Fred Done took over certainly need looking at. Was at Uttoxeter the other week. I backed the winner on tote. 7/1 in the ring, 11.20 on the tote 2 mins before the off. Returned 7.20. Won't be betting tote again.

[Smarty72]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread Off current topic but went racing on Friday to Thirsk and was totally miffed at one of the one course bookies! The race in question was the 14.55 which was won by Syros. Placed 2 early bets for the wife and son on Syros which were both subject to Rule 4 10p in the pound due to non runners about 20 mins before, no problem with that as early price was 4\1 (SP 3\1) and paid out accordingly. I was watching the betting and it looked as if Syros was been gambled heavily for the Mick Easterby yard with Keiren Fallon on board and decided to have a bet about 10 mins before the off. Went to the same on course bookie (had backed with him for first 2 races) who had reformed his board to just have 7 runners had cut all prices as expected and placed a bet on Syros to win. Got totally crap odds 2\1 (my fault) compared to SP but was pleased when Fallon just got the winner up on the line. Went to collect my winnings, got paid out for my first 2 bets placed before the non runners (with rule 4 applied) as expected but with my bet he applied Rule 4. Queried this with him because of the time of the bet and what he was betting at that time but no that's all he was paying, rule 4 10p was apparently on all winning bets! Very annoyed and did not bet with him for the rest of the afternoon and neither did the rest of my party. I may be wrong and he was correct but personally I think he was taking advantage of punters in the family enclosure and trying to limit his losses. In future I will be betting on line at the course if signal is ok, or place my bets before racing certainly will not be putting any significant amounts on horses on course in future.

[BillyHills]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread I think its quite typical of on-course bookies Smarty, i was talking about some of the each way terms they have earlier. (1/6th and 1/8th odds EW !!) If i was you i would have reported him toe the Betting Ring manager who has to be available on each course at all times in case of disputes. I know its a pain in the arse complaining but if we don't they will just get away with it. Nice speech from the doom merchant earlier by the way, certainly put me back in my box:clap

[Smarty72]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread

I think its quite typical of on-course bookies Smarty, i was talking about some of the each way terms they have earlier. (1/6th and 1/8th odds EW !!) If i was you i would have reported him toe the Betting Ring manager who has to be available on each course at all times in case of disputes. I know its a pain in the arse complaining but if we don't they will just get away with it. Nice speech from the doom merchant earlier by the way, certainly put me back in my box:clap

Yes should have done! And will do in future! What I feel sorry for is the fact that he was taking advantage of lots of people due to them probably not knowing the rules on betting and been a family area none of the big bets would have been made in this area. I think the betting Ring manager was in the main enclosure, never once saw him/her in the family enclosure or anyone who would resemble such a person, so the 5 betting firms were probably unmanaged. Did notice that they were constantly offering lower prices on all runners compared to the betting show on the big screen and never once did the prices match or were higher. Guess it serves me right for going in this area but it suited our party better and although some of our group of 5 were betting small stakes, collectively we were betting a reasonable amount between us. Certainly spoiled the day for me. To be fair they were offering 1/5th odds EW on the races, think they are now obliged to offer better EW terms on race day.

[Toast]

Re: Daily Racing Chat Thread

Erhaab, wasnt the laser beam jobbie aimed at Cacoethes in the international at York? Regarding bent, where's there's money, there's corruption. Those tote returns since Fred Done took over certainly need looking at. Was at Uttoxeter the other week. I backed the winner on tote. 7/1 in the ring, 11.20 on the tote 2 mins before the off. Returned 7.20. Won't be betting tote again.

Forget that it was Ile De Chypre at Royal Ascot. IDC beat Cacoethes at York the following season. Ims Nashwan was around at that time aswell. A golden era.