Hand - Close to winning 550 euro seat

[Rhino_Power]

Scenario...... Just got to Final Table and straight into big blind................ Playing for 6 tickets for 550 euro seat MPN pokertour London Malta. 7-9th place win a 80 euro token Hand history....... ** Hand # 5247023929 starting - 2014-03-03 23:42:07 ** €3,500 MPN POKER TOUR FREEROLL[11932817]:Table 7 [Multi Table Hold'em] (5,000|10,000 NL - MTT) Real Money ScorchioSid sitting in seat 1 with 70999.00 OJP sitting in seat 2 with 60828.00 GeoffA sitting in seat 3 with 85121.28 ThePokerMind sitting in seat 4 with 164114.50 fuab sitting in seat 5 with 261049.58 Stickitinu sitting in seat 6 with 83820.00 mickooono1 sitting in seat 7 with 28035.92 philg4 sitting in seat 8 with 76998.72[Dealer] iknowuw99 sitting in seat 9 with 141733.00 iknowuw99 ante'd - 1000.00 ScorchioSid ante'd - 1000.00 OJP ante'd - 1000.00 GeoffA ante'd - 1000.00 ThePokerMind ante'd - 1000.00 fuab ante'd - 1000.00 Stickitinu ante'd - 1000.00 mickooono1 ante'd - 1000.00 philg4 ante'd - 1000.00 iknowuw99 posted the small blind - 5000.00 ScorchioSid posted the big blind - 10000.00 ** Dealing cards to ScorchioSid: 4c, 6c OJP folded GeoffA folded ThePokerMind folded fuab folded Stickitinu folded mickooono1 folded philg4 raised to 20000.00 iknowuw99 called - 15000.00 ScorchioSid folded ========================================================== I was very close to calling with 46c.....with a 55k pot in the middle and 10k more to see the flop my question is did i do the right thing in folding. I hovered over the call for 15 seconds and in the end was 49-51 and folded. Your thoughts please...............is it a fold, call or shove?

[Danshot]

Re: Hand - Close to winning 550 euro seat Philg is a shortstack as well , he should only really be min raising monster hands with his stack , so definitely just fold this hand and hope to have a big hand during the next orbit , or at the very least a position where you have any fold equity. In Satellite's the main goal is to have chips left doesn't matter how many , in most situation better of shoving or folding at this stage especially your stack size Sent from my GT-I8190N using PL Forum

[deadlydaveLDN]

Re: Hand - Close to winning 550 euro seat Easiest fold ever. People panic too much with shortstacks and think they need to win a pot quickly. You just need to get to the last 6 with 1 chip. Think about what kind of flop you're hoping for with 64 and how often this is going to happen.

[glceud]

Re: Hand - Close to winning 550 euro seat Shove is the correct play, if you think you can fold your way to a seat with 6bb left gl. You can call if you are going to shove the flop blind.

[deadlydaveLDN]

Re: Hand - Close to winning 550 euro seat Shove is horrible, the guy is basically never min-raise folding there, so you're just putting all your chips in way behind his range.

[deadlydaveLDN]

Re: Hand - Close to winning 550 euro seat You don't even then have to fold your way in with 6BBs, you just have to find a better spot to get your chips in and survive.

[glceud]

Re: Hand - Close to winning 550 euro seat Finding better spots is the most overused statement in poker(even more than blaming variance for not winning). With shallow stacks you have to min raise in late position to maintain your stack and you also have to play back at some point,this is that point(avoids blaming variance too). Min-raise folding this close to the objective of the Tourney happens all the time.

[deadlydaveLDN]

Re: Hand - Close to winning 550 euro seat I'm sure the guy isn't min-raise folding a 7BB stack, if he has 12+ the re-shove is fine. Finding better spots may be overused but in this instance it the correct use. Why would you want to put your chips in a spot where he might fold 1 in 10 times and you're never ahead. Ever.

[deadlydaveLDN]

Re: Hand - Close to winning 550 euro seat Also, min-raising is horrible with that stack size whatever cards you have.

[deadlydaveLDN]

Re: Hand - Close to winning 550 euro seat Although given that people think it's a good play to playback with 64 there, maybe the min-raise isn't so terrible after all.

[glceud]

Re: Hand - Close to winning 550 euro seat 1 time in 10, try 5- 7 times in 10. Might be min raising with aces might not, any over pair your in trouble big Ace and your not that far behind. Calling ranges in Satts are very tight as everyone waits "for a better spot" Late position raising ranges have to be massive to have any chance of survival. 4-6 is quite a good play as no hand with a 4 or a 6 will call.

[south_eastern_ram]

Re: Hand - Close to winning 550 euro seat Lol to shoving, just as terrible as flatting.

[Rhino_Power]

Re: Hand - Close to winning 550 euro seat My thoughts on calling..... i was on 71k reduced in theory by big blind to 61k. The ask was another 10k into a 55k pot leaving me a minimum of 51k. Was 51k enough to push next couple of hands to steal back? i was 7th of 9 and not in a position to do much folding and needed a good pot. Could I see the flop and get lucky or shove through on a low card flop. Obviously 6-high is weak and in the end my main reason for folding was exactly that of which has been mentioned. To find a better spot. In end I got them in (less chips than I had with 46c) with AKo and fell to TT. I hit the flop looking for treble up but he hit another T on the turn. The 46c hand.......the flop was 244 and philg4 shoved his stack post flop.

[glceud]

Re: Hand - Close to winning 550 euro seat Yea well Ram when you have qualified for over 25k's worth of live events online fell free to lol. Until then at least explain how your superior poker knowledge thinks folding is the only option.

[deadlydaveLDN]

Re: Hand - Close to winning 550 euro seat I cannot believe that someone min-raising with 7BBs is folding 5-7 times out of 10. I've played enough satellites (albeit for online not live tournaments) and pretty much never seen anyone fold in this spot.

[Rhino_Power]

Re: Hand - Close to winning 550 euro seat I have to say that in my experience of coming close a few times now to sats like these, its usually the aggressive players that win through. Blinds get that high that if you fold a couple of rounds you soon find yourself very vulnerable. If the spot does not come along albeit because of an aggressive table or card dead then you end up going in with a similar 46c hand with a lot less chips left.

[deadlydaveLDN]

Re: Hand - Close to winning 550 euro seat You might end up having to get 64 in later with less chips, but you also might be a player or 2 closer to the seat, and with no less equity than you would have got it in earlier.

I have to say that in my experience of coming close a few times now to sats like these' date=' its usually the aggressive players that win through. Blinds get that high that if you fold a couple of rounds you soon find yourself very vulnerable. If the spot does not come along albeit because of an aggressive table or card dead then you end up going in with a similar 46c hand with a lot less chips left.[/quote']

[glceud]

Re: Hand - Close to winning 550 euro seat Ok my last word on this. Players min raise in sats to maintain there stack size, they min raise so they can still fold and have enough chips to shove. At least that is what I do and I think others do too. With most of the table having less than 10bbs, 5 bbs is still a more than a big enough stack to shove. You have to be the one asking the questions in shallow stack poker or you will blind out. I think we will have to agree to disagree on this DDL as our opinions on short stacked final tables fold equity are miles apart.

[south_eastern_ram]

Re: Hand - Close to winning 550 euro seat

Yea well Ram when you have qualified for over 25k's worth of live events online fell free to lol. Until then at least explain how your superior poker knowledge thinks folding is the only option.

I suppose Jerry Yang knows more about poker than people like Sam Grafton or Rhys Jones, cos you know, he won the main for 8 mill. Good argument there. Unless you've got clear evidence that villain is raise folding an 8bb stack, then you've got almost no fold equity. Ask this question to any online sicko, any pro, a 2p2 thread if you must, I'd bet everything I own (not much tbf) that folding will be what they say. This is such a basic fold.

[Von Donkenschnitzel]

Re: Hand - Close to winning 550 euro seat

Lol to shoving' date=' just as terrible as flatting.[/quote'] this ^ Thinking you'd have fold equity by shoving here is just ridiculous.

[Haichan]

Re: Hand - Close to winning 550 euro seat You really can't make these judgements without knowing what the raiser and caller have been doing all night. If they had been raising light then it could be a shove so long as you think he will fold to your shove.. With the stack size you cannot call. its fold or shove. However if one of the others already in the pot will often call light its a very dodgy shove. I would wait for a better hand. Other night when I won the $1000, on the final table one guy had been shoving all night light. He had a big stack. Doubled up twice with marginal Ax against him. However against another player who was shoving with a very limited range I would fold the same hand. You cannot apply the same rules. Its totally player dependent and you need to be very aware what the other players have been doing.