Antepost > Premier League 2013/14 > Winner

[Lordoftheonionrings]

Re: Antepost > Premier League 2013/14 > Winner

You keep going on about these old players when United have some of the best up and coming talent around. Rafael > 22 Jones > 21 Evans > 25 Anderson > 25 Smalling > 23 Hernandez > 25 De Gea > 22 Welbeck > 22 Cleverley > 23 Powell > 19 Kagawa > 24 Buttner > 24 Amos > 23 Zaha > 20. 14 of United's 25 first team squad players are 25 years old or younger. How on earth is it an ageing squad? The average age of United's squad is 25.

Only De Gea and Rafael on that list are part of the current spine of the team. Hernandez appears to do his best work from the bench. And a lot of that list are unproven. Every club has young talent coming through but what makes that group any better than what other clubs are bringing through? Fact of the matter is that a lot of the core will need to be replaced in the near future.

[Lordoftheonionrings]

Re: Antepost > Premier League 2013/14 > Winner

So lets see how many players City have at 25 or under. Richards > 24 Nasri > 25 Sinclair > 24 Aguero > 25 Rodwell > 22 Nastasic > 20 Guidetti > 21 Razak > 20 City only have 8 players at the age of 25 or under. United have 14. Yes, Giggs is old, Ferdinand is old, but the amount of young talent coming up through the squad is far greater than what City have. The averege age of United's squad is 25, average age of City's squad is 27. So it is City that has the ageing squad.

Yes, but the spine of their team are all at nice ages. Toure is probably the oldest and he just turned 30 so he has a few years left in him yet.

[Aidymac]

Re: Antepost > Premier League 2013/14 > Winner

Only De Gea and Rafael on that list are part of the current spine of the team. Hernandez appears to do his best work from the bench. And a lot of that list are unproven. Every club has young talent coming through but what makes that group any better than what other clubs are bringing through? Fact of the matter is that a lot of the core will need to be replaced in the near future.

What? Hernandez is in the spine of the team. He has scored 33 goals in 77 games, he has been a huge reason United have been successful. Kagawa is also a first-team regular, but had injury problems. Zaha is going to be exceptional, there is no denying that. Jones is a first team player and will replace Ferdinand, Zaha will replace Giggs. What's the problem? P.S. Lot of transfers to be made yet before next season. Where will Bale go?

[Lordoftheonionrings]

Re: Antepost > Premier League 2013/14 > Winner You're making a prediction that Zaha is going to be exceptional. His form for large parts of last season with Crystal Palace suggests otherwise and it is really a matter of wait and see. Also next season might be a season or two too early for him. Kagawa or Hernandez are not regular starters but I do recognize the importance of Hernandez in particular. Really good player. As I said above I'm not saying United are a bad team, just that a fair bit of work will have to be done in my opinion replacing certain players. I certainly wont be backing them for the title next year. Lots of sounds coming out of Madrid today regarding Bale, looks nailed on to join them I reckon but I think United should go in for him. He'd suit them down to the ground.

[RedDevil92]

Re: Antepost > Premier League 2013/14 > Winner

The only reason I said United without Van Persie was to show how weak I feel the rest of the squad is. Chelsea or City could lose any individual player and I don't think it would affect them the same as United losing RVP' date=' because they both have stronger squads in my opinion. And Rio Ferdinand, who had a good year, was not the best CB in the PL last year and besides the point he will turn 35 next season and will have to be replaced relatively soon. Carrick had a very good season but turns 32 soon. Kompany might have been pants last season but as a manager coming in who would you prefer to have, Kompany or Ferdinand? No brainer.[/quote'] If City would be without Toure they would be much weaker for sure. He is their key player. Sure he doesn't score as often as a striker does, simply because he's an central midfielder. But he is able to control an entire match and without him, that bunch of players would be much weaker given the fact how poor they play. Even if they have some problems with their coach, they should kick their on asses and get up, remembering in which league they play and on which wages they are. Are you joking in comparing Kompany to Rio? Rio is 8 years older, if he was better than Kompany, then Kompany should play in a lower division. Sure Ferdy lacks of pace but has enormous experience and I didn't see any big mistake made by hime in the last couple of weeks / months (don't take that last match into account, they played like in a friendly).

[Lordoftheonionrings]

Re: Antepost > Premier League 2013/14 > Winner

If City would be without Toure they would be much weaker for sure. He is their key player. Sure he doesn't score as often as a striker does, simply because he's an central midfielder. But he is able to control an entire match and without him, that bunch of players would be much weaker given the fact how poor they play. Even if they have some problems with their coach, they should kick their on asses and get up, remembering in which league they play and on which wages they are. Are you joking in comparing Kompany to Rio? Rio is 8 years older, if he was better than Kompany, then Kompany should play in a lower division. Sure Ferdy lacks of pace but has enormous experience and I didn't see any big mistake made by hime in the last couple of weeks / months (don't take that last match into account, they played like in a friendly).

I didn't make the comparison between Kompany and Rio, I was replying to a post. I also agree that Toure would be a big loss but not as much as Van Persie to United in my opinion.

[Jase82]

Re: Antepost > Premier League 2013/14 > Winner Thread getting a bit misguided, or misled IMO :ok I agree with what Aidy and Hastgill said earlier really. When I said United have the better squad, I meant just that. City may have a few arguably better players than United, but when you compare top clubs you'd probably have one player over another and vice versa before you have a mixture of players from both the clubs. United clearly have the best forward in Van Persie, City probably have the better utility player in Aguero... better defender in Kompany (debatable). But as Aidy says, and the point I was making, was that a squad of players that play together, win / lose together is better than one packed full of individuals. Man City had to spend a hell of a lot before Mancini took over just to get into the top four, and then had to spend an extra £100m+ on top of that to get anywhere near United. I don't agree that Van Persie is what makes United either, as they've never been a one man team. Before Van Persie they had Rooney that was banging them in before SAF moved his positioning. Before that it was other players etc. The fact is they do have Van Persie now, and IMO they probably have one of the best forward players at their disposal that they've ever had. Wellbeck and Hernandez are two players you can rely on, they also have Zaha coming in, as well as the Chilean guy coming in from Wigan (where he's been on loan). In contrast I think City may have superb individual players, which they've spent a lot of money on. But they look much weaker if they lose Kompany in defence for instance. Where as United have the squad capable to cope with injuries etc. The main thing where United are concerned is keeping Rooney. I think it would be a backward step if they sold him, especially to one of their rivals. But he seems to think he's indispensable, and I can't see United allowing him to hold them to ransom for a second time.

[Hutcho_CFC]

Re: Antepost > Premier League 2013/14 > Winner For me, if it was purely down to best XI talent, then it would be a two horse race between us and City. Player for player there arn't many individual players from the united team who would get in the City or Chelsea teams, except, Rooney, RVP, and maybe Carrick. Yet that was pretty much the case last year. However, this season no SAF (not in direct charge), City have added to their squad in a big way, and we have been through our transistion year and have the greatest manager there is in charge. RVP we keep United in it, but for me it will be: 1. Chelsea/City 3. United And 10/1 on Arsenal... I mean that is the funniest thing i have seen. You could run this season 1000 times and Arsenal wouldn't win the league. In fact i would be rather surprised if they got top 4, with the way the Spurs squad is shaping up. And liverpool being better favourites than Tottenham is also extremely puzzeling. It would seem that Liverpool are underpriced in pretty much every market.

[stefanos56]

Re: Antepost > Premier League 2013/14 > Winner Tricast: Chelsea; City; United 10/1 with Bet365 The top 3 is probably a lock-in, the only question is in what order? Some debate on state of squads/first XIs here and rightly so, but just looking at the managers for a moment: Mourinho is a quality act, no doubt - I think criticising his time at Real is bit harsh - okay, with the resources at his disposal he should have done better in the Champions League but he did win La Liga when facing a Barcelona team considered by many the best team of all time - if the team who wins the league is the best and they were a different team to 'the best team in the world' then he obviously did something right. Pellegrini has done well wherever he has gone to and City definitely have a strong squad. City will be stronger than last year simply because Mancini and his divisive nature has gone. It wasn't a happy camp in his last months there. Plus they have made some potentially good signings in Navas (extra pace and crossing) and Fernandinho (should make strong midfield partnership with Toure in particular). Moyes is a top manager, no doubt about it - what he did at Everton was amazing. But my thinking here is quite simple - what team wouldn't be expected a dip after losing Ferguson? I also think their failure to capture Fabregas will cost them as I think he would make a massive difference to their title-winning chances. He's exactly the type of player they need, somebody who could genuinely take over the legend of Scholes in my opinion. 1st Chelsea: Their strengths are its first XI (and the manager, of course). They do need an accomplished striker, however, I'd be surprised not to see them buy another top signing before the transfer window shuts. Besides, I expect a big season for Lukaku as he's the most similar in style they've got to Drogba, just the type of powerful and dynamic striker that Mourinho likes. Whoever is up front will be supported by any combo of Oscar/Hazard/Mata/Lampard/Ramires. THey have accomplshed and experienced defenders and strong attackng full-backs. They also look like they blood in a few more of their younger players too - plenty of potential excellent rotation in this squad. 2nd City: I think they'll be well organised under 'The Engineer' Pelligrini. Irrespective of his relative lack of trophies he has improved virtually every team he's managed and City don't look to me like they're that far away. I take the points of others who claim they are collection of individuals rather than a cohesive team, but they are quality individuals with every chance of playing together in much greater harmony than last year when the club struggled with in-fighting. 3rd United: I think this title-chase will be close for the most the season (a refreshing change from last year) and a title-winning side won't suddenly become bad just because Ferguson has left, but as I said earlier, any team will struggle losing him. The squad has also lost it's entire training team - I understand Moyes wanting to bring in his own backroom staff but the United backroom team have known the United squad and what makes them tick for years. There may not be a great deal of changes amongst the squad but there are within the managerial/training set-up. I know there have obviously been managerial changes at Chelsea and City too, however, I think those changes were undoubtedly much more welcome than the one at United.

[ELCAKER]

Re: Antepost > Premier League 2013/14 > Winner What a hilarious thread, straight out of Betfair. Some pertinent points made early on then descending into a "my club is better than yours" rant. As a fan with no connection to anyone likely to finish in the top 4 here's my perspective on the market. City are the best value. They have won the title so know what is required. They were very poor last season after a decent start, but I think that was reflected in the stand-off that developed between the players and Mancini. I expect Pellegrini's much more softly softly approach to work very well with their squad of extremely talented, experienced players. Chelsea are somehow favourites. Oh to be a bookie...Can you imagine how you would be laughing every time someone entered your premises to put a bet on Chelsea to win the league at 5/2 (or less!). And when Rooney signs, they'll clip another 1/2 point. Mourinho is back, which is a good thing and he is probably the best coach in the league. But he is using the same spine of Cech, Terry and Lampard from when he left way back when and that's a big ask. They could be set to lose Luiz, and even if they bring in Wayne I wouldn't want them at 5's. And so to United. The best club in the last two decades, but has that run coincided with the reign of the greatest manager in British football history? Looking from the outside I cant see how there cant be some kind of drop off. I understand that United fans want to believe it will all be the same, but the reality might prove a little different. Furthermore no one seems interested in looking at Moyes the coach. How will he operate? Here is a man who for the best part of the last 10 plus years has ben setting up his Everton team not to lose games. Now he has gone to a club where he will have to go to win games. There's a huge difference between those two mindsets. If Moyes gets United into a top 2 finish I would say he has done brilliantly. I think expectations of winning the title are wide of the mark.

[The Sexless Innkeeper]

Re: Antepost > Premier League 2013/14 > Winner Note that Pellegrini didn't win a thing in his life and also never managed in Premier League, same can be said for Mourinho and Wenger and Ferguson and Mancini but they all won loads of stuff before... He just doesn't know how to win because he never did it, and that could be decisive factor.

[Aidymac]

Re: Antepost > Premier League 2013/14 > Winner @ Elcaker It is easy to see why Chelsea are favourites. Moyes has a 44% win strike rate Pellegrini has a 47% strike rate. Mourinho has a 68% strike rate. Mourinho is the only manager of the three proven in the Premier League and the only one that has won major trophies. You mentioned Lampard etc being the spine of the team? Lampard was unbelievable last season, regardless of his age. You see Pirlo still running the show for Juventus. They have a lot of young up and coming talent in Luiz, Hazard, Lukaku etc. I personally think Man United are serious value, cos let's say Moyes does 10 points worse than Ferguson did last year, it should still be enough to win the title. I definitely don't fancy City anyways. Gareth Barry, James Milner, Nasri... They really need to get rid of some dead wood and strengthen their midfield IMO. Now that Tevez + Balotelli are gone too, a lot of pressure on Aguero.

[Jase82]

@ Elcaker It is easy to see why Chelsea are favourites. Moyes has a 44% win strike rate Pellegrini has a 47% strike rate. Mourinho has a 68% strike rate.

Mourinho has only managed top top teams though..... Madrid and Porto, you're pretty much guaranteed to win a huge percentage of games. Pellegrini and Moyes haven't managed clubs of equal footing, or at least Pellegrini had a bash at Madrid, and may find he comes up against the same issues over player purchases that he had managing there.

[Aidymac]

Re: Antepost > Premier League 2013/14 > Winner

Mourinho has only managed top top teams though..... Madrid and Porto, you're pretty much guaranteed to win a huge percentage of games. Pellegrini and Moyes haven't managed clubs of equal footing, or at least Pellegrini had a bash at Madrid, and may find he comes up against the same issues over player purchases that he had managing there.

Yes, that was exactly my point Jase. :lol Mourinho is proven, the others aren't.

[IAmGooner]

Re: Antepost > Premier League 2013/14 > Winner City have the best squad in the country and IMO should win the title as they now have a manager who won't be fighting with numerous players(you would expect at least). Their front 4 has serious depth and quality. ---------------------------- Negredo/Dzeko -- Aguero/Jovetic-------- Silva----------------Navas/Nasri ------------------- Yaya - Fernandinho I expected Chelsea to spend more as thats how Mourinho operates...spend spend spend. But I cant see them winning the title with the current strikers and centre-mids are not as dominant as the past. Mourinho will need to get the defence going again too.

[Jase82]

Yes, that was exactly my point Jase. :lol Mourinho is proven, the others aren't.

Sorry the way I read I thought the opposite....

[HastGill1]

Re: Antepost > Premier League 2013/14 > Winner

What a hilarious thread, straight out of Betfair. Some pertinent points made early on then descending into a "my club is better than yours" rant. As a fan with no connection to anyone likely to finish in the top 4 here's my perspective on the market. City are the best value. They have won the title so know what is required. They were very poor last season after a decent start, but I think that was reflected in the stand-off that developed between the players and Mancini. I expect Pellegrini's much more softly softly approach to work very well with their squad of extremely talented, experienced players. Chelsea are somehow favourites. Oh to be a bookie...Can you imagine how you would be laughing every time someone entered your premises to put a bet on Chelsea to win the league at 5/2 (or less!). And when Rooney signs, they'll clip another 1/2 point. Mourinho is back, which is a good thing and he is probably the best coach in the league. But he is using the same spine of Cech, Terry and Lampard from when he left way back when and that's a big ask. They could be set to lose Luiz, and even if they bring in Wayne I wouldn't want them at 5's. And so to United. The best club in the last two decades, but has that run coincided with the reign of the greatest manager in British football history? Looking from the outside I cant see how there cant be some kind of drop off. I understand that United fans want to believe it will all be the same, but the reality might prove a little different. Furthermore no one seems interested in looking at Moyes the coach. How will he operate? Here is a man who for the best part of the last 10 plus years has ben setting up his Everton team not to lose games. Now he has gone to a club where he will have to go to win games. There's a huge difference between those two mindsets. If Moyes gets United into a top 2 finish I would say he has done brilliantly. I think expectations of winning the title are wide of the mark.

Agree, the United fans on here tend to get VERY touchy :lol.. Chelsea look too short to me, Mourinho is going to have to sure up that rearguard quite a lot if they are going to win it imo. They drop points at stupid times and I don't have any confidence they will be able to grind out 1-0 wins when required, getting Rooney is certainly key to their chances, if United keep telling them to 'do one' they need to have a back-up plan..Torres is never going to be the player he was before the injuries took their toll, no matter how much people want him to be, his days as a top level striker are over. Lukaku has great potential but would you really want to rely on him for the whole season in 4 different comps? They need a genuine first rate forward if they're going to do it imo, even then I'm not sure. City look the best bet to me, learned from last year and did their transfer business early..best squad by a distance and the best defence which is important. No real weaknesses to me unless but we have yet to see how they cope with a extended run in the CL so that might derail a PL bid if they are still in it in Feb time. United's bizarre bids for Fabregas get more laughable by the week, HE DOESN'T WANT TO LEAVE AND THEY DON'T WANT TO SELL!! Having wasted weeks on that they are now left with what looks like a distant second choice in Fellani, his passing is poor but he does offer good ability on the ball and an aerial threat I guess, have to see how he adapts to life at a top club. Hardly the kind of signing that wins championships though, their central midfield still looks very weak to me, Carrick will have to have another great season if they are to challenge..can't see it really. Rooney is a daft c*nt but does virtually guarantee 15 Prem goals at least so they need to keep hold of him, selling him to Chelsea would appear to be a very strange move, need to keep him imo. Having said that I have backed United and City for the league :lol..more of a bet against Chelsea than anything, get a healthy profit if either side wins the league.

[THFC84]

Re: Antepost > Premier League 2013/14 > Winner This is the toughest premier league season ever to pick the winner in my opinion with all of the 3 sides with a realistic chance of the title having new managers at the helm. I can see the top 3 teams (United, City and Chelsea) being neck and neck till the last couple of games of the season and i don't think there will be much difference between the 3 sides at all, probably 5 or 6 points difference between 1st place and 3rd. 1st Man City - Firstly, for City Pellegrini is a quality manager which he has proven with Malaga where they were very close to knocking Dortmund out of the Quarter Finals of the Champions League last season. City have added more quality and depth to their squad bringing in Fernandinho, Navas, Negredo and Jovetic. I especially think the signing of Navas is important for City because he will give them some much needed width to their side which they were severely lacking last year whilst they've also kept the spine of their team with the likes of Kompany, Toure, Silva and Aguero still there and they will be determined to make a serious title challenge this season after United took it off them last season with ease. 2nd Chelsea - Chelsea have underperformed in the league in the last couple of seasons and haven't really challenged for the title in the last two seasons which is partly down to how well they have perfomed in the cups in both seasons. However, this season i really think they will challenge and with Mourinho back at the helm they will be really dangerous. I think the fact that Chelsea are favourites or joint favourites with City at most bookies is unwarranted though and there is absolutely no value in backing them to win it and i think they will fall just short because they lack an experienced top quality striker. Looking at their 3 strikers: Lukaku is not experienced enough to lead the line for a title chasing team, although he is a very good player who could be world class in a few years. Torres is far too inconsistent and he will score goals against the likes of Hull and Palace but he is not good enough to be a first choice striker at Chelsea. The same can be said of Ba in my opinion who is not good enough for a team like Chelsea and his level is a team like Everton. There's no doubting Chelsea's quality in midfield but they will fall just short if they don't sign a quality striker. 3rd Man United - It's going to be a big ask for Moyes to win the title in his first season in charge at United and whilst there is no doubt they will be in the mix at the end of the season i think they will end up just short. United haven't really strengthened in the transfer window (except Zaha and Varela) which i am quite surprised about considering City have just spent £90 million. United are weak in midfield compared to City and Chelsea and they have quite a few starters who are getting on a bit (Vidic 31, Ferdinand 34, Evra 32, Carrick 32) and whilst that is an advantage to have experience, they can't continue to do it year in year out no matter how good they are and also a lot depends on if Rooney stays or goes to Chelsea. Also, Moyes has never managed a really big club before which is a disadvantage compared to Pellegrini and Mourinho who both have experience of the pressure at massive clubs like Real Madrid. I'm backing City to win the title this season because in my opinion they have the best all round squad and they have the most strength in depth. In my opinion Chelsea's strikers are not good enough to win the league and United's midfield and defence is questionable whereas City don't really have a glaring weakness which makes them the favourites to me. Should be a cracking title race with little to choose between the 3 sides.

[cpo]

Re: Antepost > Premier League 2013/14 > Winner I think 9/4 for City is an unbelievable price and they should be clear favourites to win the League. They have the best squad by an absolute street. Chelsea if they signed a world class forward would come close but I feel the City squad is just too good. Guaranteed if they aren't where they want to be in January, then funds will be available to improve the squad again. Key points for me backing them this year... 1.Got rid of 3 troublesome characters in the manager, Tevez and Balotelli 2.Strength in depth 3.Toure given more of a license to get forward this year 4.Navas to add some much needed pace and width 5.More attack minded manager to suit the players they have at the club 6.4 top class forwards Man City to win the Premier League Max Bet @ 9/4

[thegodofbetting]

Re: Antepost > Premier League 2013/14 > Winner Chelsea will win the title for me, they have some great young talent and have a lot of champions in the squad(players that have won major championships) The mixture between young talent and experience is there and with Mourinho in charge they should win the title with the closest contender being Manchester City.

[kevshat]

Re: Antepost > Premier League 2013/14 > Winner 4pts Manchester United to win Premier League 11/4 Bet365 Manchester United know how to win titles and while the manager has changed, little else has at Old Trafford. The senior players know how to get the job done and with a major signing expected before the transfer window comes to an end I still think United are the ones they all have to beat. David Moyes won’t have to change too much but he’s a decent enough manager in his own right. United may well be better defensively under him than they were in the last two years of Sir Alex Ferguson’s reign and with the talent they have in forward areas I think the champions can retain their title. Full preview here: http://www.punterslounge.com/premier-league-betting-new-era-at-old-trafford-can-begin-as-the-last-one-finished 3pts Liverpool to win Premier League (w/o big 3) 10/3 Stan James One side who may have more improvement in them than others are Liverpool. You could well argue they need to improve and you wouldn’t be wrong but in the likes of Iago Aspas they have made a clear improvement. With the signings they made in January, particularly Daniel Sturridge and Philippe Coutinho, Liverpool look a lot more creative going forward and they will have arguably the best player in the league back after six games with Luis Suarez now seemingly happy to stay. I think Liverpool will have a good season and at 10/3 they look the best bet without the main three. Full preview here: http://www.punterslounge.com/premier-league-betting-liverpool-can-improve-enough-to-win-the-league-without-the-top-3

[Hutcho_CFC]

Re: Antepost > Premier League 2013/14 > Winner Early in the pre season this was looking like one of the closest 3 horse races going. But tbh I think that whilst it will still be close, it's much more a 2 horse race. On paper it's between us and city. Uniteds squad on paper doesn't have really come that close. And without the SAF factor I will be very surprised if they won the league. Logic says city should win it. The heart says we should. I think we have the best attacking midfield line, but our central midfield isn't as good and we don't have the striking options and are basically relying on lukaku.

[Hutcho_CFC]

Re: Antepost > Premier League 2013/14 > Winner Also laying Liverpool for top 4 is free money.

[recklessrookie]

Re: Antepost > Premier League 2013/14 > Winner Tottenham have to be worth a punt now, assembling a very strong team, look tough to score against and now adding creativity with the signings of Lamela and Eriksen it's exciting times down at the Lane.