Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland)

[Aidymac]

[TABLE=class: couponTable, width: 617]

[TR=class: row0, bgcolor: #F0F0F0] [TD=class: firstColumn]Shakhtar Donetsk v Juventus (19:45 GMT)[/TD] [TD=class: selectionBestOdd, align: center]3[/TD] [TD=class: selectionBestOdd, align: center]2.18[/TD] [TD=class: selectionBestOdd, align: center]4.33[/TD] [TD=class: bppWidth bpp, align: center]102.28 %[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [TABLE=class: couponTable, width: 617] [TR=class: row1] [TD=class: firstColumn]Chelsea v FC Nordsjælland (19:45 GMT)[/TD] [TD=class: selectionBestOdd, align: center]1.12[/TD] [TD=class: selectionBestOdd, align: center]8.9[/TD] [TD=class: selectionBestOdd, align: center]17[/TD] [TD=class: bppWidth bpp, align: center]106.01 %[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]

[Fedar]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland) Draw in Donetsk looks like a banker. I am sorry, but I don't believe in fair-play, especially when these two teams are concerned. Shakhtar yesterday showed total lack of moral and values by scoring a goal in such an embarrassing violation of fair-play. I have no doubt they will settle for a draw which gives them first place. As about Juventus, I don't even need to comment. We all know their recent history, I bet everybody questions their integrity. Sorry for Chelsea, but they are out and they know it.

[Jase82]

Didn't they then allow Nordsjaelland to then score a goal themselves? Sounds like really good fair play to me. There is still top place to play for so I think a draw would suit Shakhtar obviously more than it would Juventus. But I can see the conspiracy theorists jumping all over the draw.

[gogoto]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland) No they did not. Especially their captain should have ordered a "free goal". Btw does anybody remember when Wenger offered a new match due to the same situation (the match was played and it was in 199?)

[HastGill1]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland) Think that was against Sheffield United in the FA Cup when Warnock was in charge? I've not checked though and that might be my memory playing tricks! Either way, I would be interested if anyone can dig up stats on how many times have faced a similar situation in the last game of the CL group phase, ie a draw will see both teams through, and how many times it actually happened? That would be a fair amount of research to undertake though!..

[Lordoftheonionrings]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland) I've seen the draw priced around evens a few times over the years when the draw would suit both teams and if I recall correctly it ended in a draw every time. A couple of Scandinavian teams were involved in one of them, maybe Denmark and Sweden and I'm pretty sure it's happened in the final group game of the Champions League before. Sorry I can't be more specific.

[Fedar]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland) The last time it happened was the Segunda Division in Spain in May, when Celta and Cordoba finished 0:0 in the last round without a single corner kick or a shoot on goal. The coefficient for a draw there fell to 1.20 by kick-off. I also remember last year in Europa League similar draw in the last round between Rubin and PAOK in Kazan. It was a bit funny, because the referee overreacted when he gave a penalty and a red card in favor of the home team. So, at this stage it seemed impossible for PAOK to get a draw there, but of course they did. On the other hand, it did not happen at Euro 12 between Spain and Croatia. However, in this case not any kind of a draw was suiting both teams, but 2:2 or a draw with more goals. And also, Spain was the much classier team, so I don't really think they were afraid they might get kicked out by Croatia. However, here we have two sides similar in class and if the game is real, then each of them risks getting knocked out of the tournament.

[gogoto]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland) UEFA will open a disciplinary case against Adriano. Article 5 K - who behaves in an unsporting manner to gain an advantage.

[MPLouis]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland)

The last time it happened was the Segunda Division in Spain in May' date=' when Celta and Cordoba finished 0:0 in the last round without a single corner kick or a shoot on goal. The coefficient for a draw there fell to 1.20 by kick-off.[/quote'] I remember that game, and you're right

[swindonfan]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland) Another game a few weeks ago was USA v Guatamala both sides needed a draw to advance to next round. However it didnt happen and ended in victory for USA. Draw price started at 5.0 came into 3.0. The difference here though is it is eastern Europeans v Italians and it is 2 evenly matched teams. There is still some advantage in winning the game because whoever wins the group will most likely get an easier game in the next round. Avoiding Barcelona, man u and probably Bayern.

[jepserdinho]

Winning the group means future fixture against Real Madrid, PSG, Arsenal, Milan or even Bayern Munich

[Aidymac]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland)

Winning the group means future fixture against Real Madrid' date=' PSG, Arsenal, Milan or even Bayern Munich[/quote'] I think teams would prefer to play PSG, Arsenal or Milan instead of playing Barcelona, Man United, Borussia Dortmund, Malaga, Schalke and Porto.. PSG have been good so far, but lack experience. Arsenal are not great, Milan are poor.

[kelevra]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland)

I think teams would prefer to play PSG' date=' Arsenal or Milan instead of playing Barcelona, Man United, Borussia Dortmund, Malaga, Schalke and Porto.. PSG have been good so far, but lack experience. Arsenal are not great, Milan are poor.[/quote'] totally agree with you

[Fedar]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland)

Another game a few weeks ago was USA v Guatamala both sides needed a draw to advance to next round. However it didnt happen and ended in victory for USA. Draw price started at 5.0 came into 3.0. The difference here though is it is eastern Europeans v Italians and it is 2 evenly matched teams. There is still some advantage in winning the game because whoever wins the group will most likely get an easier game in the next round. Avoiding Barcelona' date=' man u and probably Bayern.[/quote'] Indeed, I followed this game between USA and Guatemala. But the difference you pointed out is huge - it is that USA is so much better than Guatemala that it is highly unlikely that they would lose to them at home. Maybe if Juventus was playing Nordseeland at home and needed a draw, they would have smashed them, but this is Shakhtar in Donetsk. Besides, the moral of USA is very different from the moral of Juventus and Shakhtar (you mentioned that as well). Positioning better for draw in this case is just a secondary concern when qualifying itself is at huge risk. I think that even without any pre-arrangements this game would finish in a gray boring draw. The two teams won't take any risks and after checking the attitude of the opposition we would probably witness a silent agreement to pass the ball around for long periods of time and not charging into serious attacking.

[pg_yid]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland)

The last time it happened was the Segunda Division in Spain in May, when Celta and Cordoba finished 0:0 in the last round without a single corner kick or a shoot on goal. The coefficient for a draw there fell to 1.20 by kick-off. I also remember last year in Europa League similar draw in the last round between Rubin and PAOK in Kazan. It was a bit funny, because the referee overreacted when he gave a penalty and a red card in favor of the home team. So, at this stage it seemed impossible for PAOK to get a draw there, but of course they did. On the other hand, it did not happen at Euro 12 between Spain and Croatia. However, in this case not any kind of a draw was suiting both teams, but 2:2 or a draw with more goals. And also, Spain was the much classier team, so I don't really think they were afraid they might get kicked out by Croatia. However, here we have two sides similar in class and if the game is real, then each of them risks getting knocked out of the tournament.

I don't think that it is correct. I think Shakhtar are already qualified. They have better goal difference in the matches against Chelsea, so if I understand the rules correctly Chelsea can't overtake them. So the only incentive for Shakhtar to draw the game is to finish top of the group. I still think you are right and they will play out a draw though.

[pg_yid]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland) Shakhtar vs Juventus 0-0 CS @ 7.0 (Bet365) 1/10 The bookies have 1-1 as the favourite CS but I think 0-0 is worth a punt. Whilst both sides will want to secure the draw, I think with the world watching it will look dodgy if they let each other score. It will be easier to simply not commit men forward. I think 0-0 is more likely than 1-1, because I imagine a draw will not be fixed as such but rather played out. If one team goes 1-0 up I don't think they're going to let in a goal, I think they will try and keep their advantage. But as long as the score is 0-0 there isn't much chance of either side scoring.

[Jase82]

Personally I think the draw is a silly price now, and is being led by all these conspiracy theorists hammering into the selection because it suits the two teams. When I'm not sure it does really. Both sides have qualified and it doesn't really matter whether either finishes first or second because there aren't any easy games. But surely Shakhtar will want to make a statement going into the knock out phase? The draw doesn't suit either, it's more a motivation question, which is why I'm leaning toward Shakhtar.

[Fedar]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland)

Both sides have qualified and it doesn't really matter whether either finishes first or second because there aren't any easy games.... The draw doesn't suit either....

Jase, did you check the table?! Juventus got 9 points, while Chelsea has 7, so it is obvious that Juve hasn't qualified. And the draw does suit both teams - first place for Shakhtar, qualification for Juve.

[Fedar]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland)

I don't think that it is correct. I think Shakhtar are already qualified. They have better goal difference in the matches against Chelsea' date=' so if I understand the rules correctly Chelsea can't overtake them. So the only incentive for Shakhtar to draw the game is to finish top of the group. I still think you are right and they will play out a draw though.[/quote'] Spot on! I indeed forgot that the direct results between teams are decisive, not the goal-difference, when they finish with equal points! So, Shakhtar are through, but they do have incentive to keep the first place.

[swindonfan]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland) No. I dont think Shakhtar are through already. I thought if level on points it was the head to head which is 1 win each for Chelsea and Shacktar. Then it is the overall goal difference. So if shacktar lose to Juve and chelsea smash Nordsjadland or whatever they are called then shacktar can go out. I could be wrong though. A draw for me also. Anyone know who the ref is going to be?

[dadi31]

No. I dont think Shakhtar are through already. I thought if level on points it was the head to head which is 1 win each for Chelsea and Shacktar. Then it is the overall goal difference. So if shacktar lose to Juve and chelsea smash Nordsjadland or whatever they are called then shacktar can go out. I could be wrong though. A draw for me also. Anyone know who the ref is going to be?

Shakhtar are through already. Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[pg_yid]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland)

No. I dont think Shakhtar are through already. I thought if level on points it was the head to head which is 1 win each for Chelsea and Shacktar. Then it is the overall goal difference. So if shacktar lose to Juve and chelsea smash Nordsjadland or whatever they are called then shacktar can go out. I could be wrong though. A draw for me also. Anyone know who the ref is going to be?

I think it's the goal difference and goals scored in the matches between the two sides, with away goals rule coming into play. So Shakhtar would go through as they scored 2 away goals with Chelsea only scoring one, in the two games between them. Rules are here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/champions_league_tables/default.stm

[Simeon Borisof]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland)

The last time it happened was the Segunda Division in Spain in May, when Celta and Cordoba finished 0:0 in the last round without a single corner kick or a shoot on goal. The coefficient for a draw there fell to 1.20 by kick-off. I also remember last year in Europa League similar draw in the last round between Rubin and PAOK in Kazan. It was a bit funny, because the referee overreacted when he gave a penalty and a red card in favor of the home team. So, at this stage it seemed impossible for PAOK to get a draw there, but of course they did. On the other hand, it did not happen at Euro 12 between Spain and Croatia. However, in this case not any kind of a draw was suiting both teams, but 2:2 or a draw with more goals. And also, Spain was the much classier team, so I don't really think they were afraid they might get kicked out by Croatia. However, here we have two sides similar in class and if the game is real, then each of them risks getting knocked out of the tournament.

Yes we remember last round in CL when Valencia and Bayern ended 1:1 it was a result which suit both teams

[Aidymac]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland) Keep up that craptalk and ye will be having a little holiday. ;) Both of ye, Fedar and Dadi. Keep it civilised please.

[Ratmouth]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland) If you like the conspiracy draw then why not back 0-0 at 5/1+ and 1-1 at 4/1+ on betfair. Better than around evens for the overall draw that is being quoted. If it's a fix, I can't see them being as elaborate as 2-2 or 3-3 can you?!

[swindonfan]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland)

If it's a fix' date=' I can't see them being as elaborate as 2-2 or 3-3 can you?![/quote'] Yes because then people will be less likely to think its a fix. Over the years quite often the games that are fixed in the Italian 2nd division end 2-2 for this very reason. I apoligise if this is slightly off topic or has been posted elsewhere on the forum but have people seen the final league table from Nigeria. http://www.fifa.com/associations/association=nga/nationalleague/detailedstandings.html Its unreal to think that a whole league over 36 games is a complete fix. Look at the home and away results. The Nigerian league is considered to be the best league in Africa.

[Fedar]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland)

If you like the conspiracy draw then why not back 0-0 at 5/1+ and 1-1 at 4/1+ on betfair. Better than around evens for the overall draw that is being quoted. If it's a fix' date=' I can't see them being as elaborate as 2-2 or 3-3 can you?![/quote'] Which brings back memories of an infamous game between Sweden and Denmark at Euro 2004 which finished exactly 2:2. Anyway, I think here that you are right, and this game should end either 0:0 or 1:1. But most probably it would be a boring and goal-less draw.

[Fedar]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland)

Yes we remember last round in CL when Valencia and Bayern ended 1:1 it was a result which suit both teams

Not really, both team have qualified after BATE lost to Lille two hours earlier, so Valencia had strong incentive to win to get the first place, while Bayern were happy with the draw.

[pg_yid]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland)

Yes because then people will be less likely to think its a fix. Over the years quite often the games that are fixed in the Italian 2nd division end 2-2 for this very reason. I apoligise if this is slightly off topic or has been posted elsewhere on the forum but have people seen the final league table from Nigeria. http://www.fifa.com/associations/association=nga/nationalleague/detailedstandings.html Its unreal to think that a whole league over 36 games is a complete fix. Look at the home and away results. The Nigerian league is considered to be the best league in Africa.

Sorry if I am missing something here, but why does that mean it was fixed? Could it not just be that home advantage is massive in Nigeria? The league winners lost half their away games (only winning one) and the team who finished bottom had a home record of W10 D6 L2 but picked up only three points on their travels. It's not inconceivable that home advantage is big due to whatever reason, I know it is really important in African national qualifiers. Maybe travel is difficult, for example...often long distances and too expensive to fly, usually no away fans and hostile home fans...I'm hypothesising.

[Fedar]

Re: Group E > Dec 5th (Shakhtar, Juventus, Chelsea, FC Nordsjaelland) Off-topic: Mates, this is Nigeria. Knowing the level of gang terror, hostility, fire-arm spread among civil population etc., I guess it is very likely that each away team and the referee might be subject to serious abuse if they put up too much of a fight. By the way, we got similar stats in Bulgarian Third Division, where most of the games are played in small towns and villages, with only several police officers present (if any), and the pressure and abuse aimed at referees and away players are quite significant.