spmcfly Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Just thought I would pick your brains as to the interpretation of this market as I'm currently in dispute with William Hill on the result of one of last nights matches. Paul Nicholson v Barrie Bates The market offered across all bookmakers is Player A or Player B to hit the 1st 180. Now, in this match last night there was no 180 so my £20 bet at Bill Hill was declared a loser. Is that a fair result from Bill Hill? Should this bet not be declared void? My interpretation of it is that they offered the option of 2 outcomes: Player A v Player B. They don't offer the 3rd option of 'No 180' so how can the bet be a loser? This market is therefore heavily stacked in their favour. You think you are betting on a 50/50 when in fact you are being offered a 33.3/66.6 market, it's just that they aren't telling you about the other alternative. Surely they should have to void the bet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froment Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Re: GSOD: 1st 180 Market Betting Query/Problem Their T&C look very poor on this topic... https://williamhill-lang.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7455/kw/darts 8. FIRST 180: Predict the player to score the first 180 in the match. I don't have a clue about darts, but it seems to me you can draw a parallel with market "Match betting"; I see that market quotes two events, just like "First 180", and overround is the same, about 107 to 108%. Unfortunatelly, T&C for that market is equally unclear: 2. MATCH BETTING: a. Predict the winner of the match. b. In league matches where odds are quoted for the draw, in the event of a draw bets on players to win will be treated as losing selections. So, if the draw is quoted, you lose if you bet on winner - that's logical and fair. But what happens if draw is not quoted, and match ends in draw? According to this sentence above, I'd say bet is void (otherwise, if it's lost, they wouldn't make separate statement for case when draw is quoted - it would be lost in both cases). In your case, outcome of "No 180" can be considered as draw, and IMHO you have the ground to argue with them, you should try. It's clear that overround of 107-108% allows for two outcomes (one player or the other player), not three (one player or the other player or none of them), except if chance of draw, i.e., "No 180" is very, very low, let's say 2 to 3%, I don't know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spmcfly Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 Re: GSOD: 1st 180 Market Betting Query/Problem Their T&C look very poor on this topic... https://williamhill-lang.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7455/kw/darts 8. FIRST 180: Predict the player to score the first 180 in the match. I don't have a clue about darts, but it seems to me you can draw a parallel with market "Match betting"; I see that market quotes two events, just like "First 180", and overround is the same, about 107 to 108%. Unfortunatelly, T&C for that market is equally unclear: 2. MATCH BETTING: a. Predict the winner of the match. b. In league matches where odds are quoted for the draw, in the event of a draw bets on players to win will be treated as losing selections. So, if the draw is quoted, you lose if you bet on winner - that's logical and fair. But what happens if draw is not quoted, and match ends in draw? According to this sentence above, I'd say bet is void (otherwise, if it's lost, they wouldn't make separate statement for case when draw is quoted - it would be lost in both cases). In your case, outcome of "No 180" can be considered as draw, and IMHO you have the ground to argue with them, you should try. It's clear that overround of 107-108% allows for two outcomes (one player or the other player), not three (one player or the other player or none of them), except if chance of draw, i.e., "No 180" is very, very low, let's say 2 to 3%, I don't know... Can't really argue with the Match Betting rules as it does mention the draw so, as you would expect, if the match is a draw and you back Player A or Player B then it's a loser. The T&C's for the 'First 180' market are non existent and seem to be made up as and when. However, taking into consideration they don't offer the 3rd possible outcome, they shouldn't be able to class the bet as a loser if that's the result. In terms of over-round or under-round, the odds on my bet were 1.67 (can't remember the other side) but I'm pretty sure it was over-rounded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froment Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Re: GSOD: 1st 180 Market Betting Query/Problem if the match is a draw and you back Player A or Player B then it's a loser. You want to say, for example, in this market: if you back one of the players above, and match ends in a draw, your bet is loser, even though draw was not quoted? If so, then I would say they settled correctly your bet - it's the same case for "First 180": You bet on one of two offered outcomes, match ends in third outcome that was not quoted... so, your bet is lost... :\ I don't understand then why they added this rule: b. In league matches where odds are quoted for the draw, in the event of a draw bets on players to win will be treated as losing selections. If you're right, then there is no need for that rule - if you bet on a winner and match ends in draw, you lose, nevermind if draw was quoted or no... And that's why I thought you had ground for dispute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spmcfly Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 Re: GSOD: 1st 180 Market Betting Query/Problem Good day. In connection to your query via Live Chat, we are sorry to inform you that as per our Security Team your bet has been settled correctly as a losing bet. As per the screenshot attached, there was no 180’s in the match. Both players have had the chance to throw a 180 therefore both selections are losers. If you have further questions, please do not hesitate to email us. Alternatively, you may contact us through our Live Chat facility and we would be more than happy to discuss any issues or concerns that you have with our products and services. With Regards, Bill Hill. The case was further argued that they don't offer the full market for 1st 180's, they don't have anything in their rules for this scenario and rival firms such as Skybet consider this a void bet (which they do as I have used them before). They eventually came back and agreed to void the bet and refund the cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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