Antepost > 2012/13

[western skies]

http://odds-comparison.bestbetting.com/football/england/premier-league/winner/

[Mirage]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 There will be a lot of things happening between now and kick-off but at the moment I can't see past United or City and neither offer much value in my opinion. Arsena's season will hinge on RVP's decision as Podolski and Giroud will need time to settle in and there is no guarantee they'll produce the goods consistently. Pardew may become aa victim of his own success as the Geordies will no doubt be getting restless if they are not challenging in and around that 4th spot from the start. I may get on Swansea in the relegation market if the price doesn't alter too much in a negative way. Laudrup may struggle if he tries to alter the way they play and he could struggle even by altering the small things that Rodgers had in place to make them such a fluent side. If they stick with the passing game there is always the possibility that teams will have them figured out and therefore they may become victims of 'second season syndrome'. Early days yet though.

[Craigdh123]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 I've just had a quick glance at this, need to do some more research. But noticed the top midlands club section. This is between Stoke, Aston Villa and West Brom. For me i'm sure Stoke will win this. They are a stable club with a good manager in Tony Pullis, as well as a great fanbase. They also have a good squad with some underrated players. Their tactics are set out to not lose the game first and foremost, then try and grab a goal or too for the win. This in my opinion gives them a greater chance of picking up the odd point here or there than the other 2. Aston Villa unless they invest in the squad are going to struggle, towards the end of last season they didn't look like a team and lack real quality. Darren Bent is their only hope of having a decent season. (Maybe Agbonlahor too) West Brom have an untested first team manager in Steve Clarke, yes everyone knows he must be a great coach look at the teams hes worked for and managers! However this seems to be a whole different ball game when they take the step up. I think it will be a tough season for them and n ot sure whereabouts they will finish. Still none of them are as good as Stoke on paper or as a team. Craig

[wisey10]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 I have been thinking that Chelsea could be worth a punt but their price has already moved into 5/1 from 6/1 so any value from them is already disappearing. I just get the impression that Abramovic isn't getting the spending bug again. Thy reportedly paid 32m for Hazard who is potentially a good signing and Maicon is the next player who could be on his way. That would be a pretty solid defence with 2 exceptional fullbacks in cole and Maicon. With MarkoMarin and edin hazard already added in midfield they look to have options there. And they are still rumoured to be after modric. Even if they don't get him it indicates that they could still be after a big money player instead. Clearly Drogba will be a massive loss but it will be interesting to see who they bring in up front. And of course Torres is still to realise his potential there. Di Matteo wasn't a glamourously appointment but he turned things round last season and most importantly the players seem to want to play for him. Man City will be tough to beat but if Abramovic keeps up his spending, Chelsea could be a real threat. At 5/1 I'm undecided but if they drift back out to 6/1 with any of the bookies I think I will have a dabble on them. They look too big at that price.

[hoddspur]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 Just looking at the top scorer market and some of them caught my eye: Papiss Cisse is 25/1 Jelavic is 33/1 Dempsey is 50/1 Lampard is 80/1 All look good value e/w bets to me

[Jase82]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13

Just looking at the top scorer market and some of them caught my eye: Papiss Cisse is 25/1 Jelavic is 33/1 Dempsey is 50/1 Lampard is 80/1 All look good value e/w bets to me

Why? ;) We need a bit of reasoning to back these selections up :ok Please also remember to quote odds and bookmaker :ok

[Jase82]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 I'm waiting for better odds on this, but I've been considering backing Southampton as top newcomer this season. (Although it pains me to say it :lol) A couple of bookies have odds out, and they don't appear to be able to split the three promoted sides. Best price is currently 2.8, which seems fair, as I believe they are in a better position that the other two sides to make a decent return to the Premier League. For me they have the momentum that Norwich had last season, they have three top goalscorers in Jay Rodriguez, Billy Sharp and Rickie Lambert that I believe can make the step up if they are given the right service. Southampton also have a top youth academy that seems to keep churning players out all the time, and I feel they have a decent spine to their side already. The nucleus of a good side is currently there, and all that is required are a few additions here and there. Players such as Dean Hammond, Morgan Schneiderlin and Adam Lallana can probably make the step up as well I feel. Overall the Premier League will be as fierce and competitive as ever next season because the three teams coming up do look pretty solid. Regarding West Ham, I just feel that Sam Allardyce is a little out of touch there, and they should really have walked the Championship with over 100 points. But the system employed there meant they were faltering, and I think with a lot of teams looking to get the ball down and play it about, you really need a plan B, which isn't evident under Sam Allardyce. Although it has worked for Stoke for a number of years, so we will see how successful they can be, but last season they were pretty terrible at home for long periods. I think it's interesting to see West Ham being pretty much made joint fifth favourite for relegation, as I think they will still be down there, and could get sucked into some sort of fight. The money isn't there either this time around, so Allardyce will have to do things on the cheap, which admittedly he was very successful at doing during his time at Bolton. Reading I'm sure will get a lot of attention after signing Pavel Pogrebnyak and because of the Russian takeover there. Heaven knows they need a goalscorer as last season they had a pretty poor record in front of goal. I think with Reading it is a complete surprise they made it to where they did in the league, and I'm a little unsure as to whether or not they peaked late on, and if they have the players capable of stepping up the grade. Having said that they should definitely be tough to beat next season as they conceded just under a goal a game last season. As far as relegation goes I don't want to select Wigan again, but I just know if I don't back them they'll end up going down this year.... I've backed them for relegation the last two seasons, and somehow Roberto Martinez has pulled them out of the relegation zone just by the skin of their teeth. I still think they lack any sort of spine, or a proven goalscorer (at any level, not just the Premier League). They seem to lose their best player each season, and Martinez works a bit of magic by dealing with it and forging together a team that almost patches over the colossal hole left by the sales. I think this year it could be a bridge too far if they lose Rodellega... BUT having said that Dave Whelan is set to reward Martinez's loyalty by backing him in the transfer market. So I would watch that one unfold personally to see how they fare in the transfer market. The outsider I still fancy for relegation has to be Villa for me. I just think they're heading in one direction, and it remains to be seen if a new manager can do enough to turn the ship around, as they really need at least a season of transition before they can steady themselves and push on from there. One thing's for sure they will have to have a complete overhaul of the playing staff in the close season. Something I don't think Villa can afford to allow too much time to bed new players in. With the EPL looking increasingly competitive next season places in the relegation zone will be as tight as ever, and it goes back to the whole transition thing - I don't think Villa have enough time to bring in virtually a whole new look side, bed them in, rebuild the harmony in the dressing room, and turn around their horrendous form from last season. Then you have the fans, which I think will be on the managers back if results don't go their way during August and September, and November will be tough for them as they have City, United and Arsenal in quick succession. At 9 with Ladbrokes I'd say they represent a decent bit of value. We have to remember they only survived by a couple of points last season, and the only thing really that has changed so far is the manager. Another thing that could go for or against them is a slight change in style that Paul Lambert will bring to them. To summarise I have a feeling that this season will be similar to last season, where at least one unexpected side will capitulate. Last season it was Bolton and Blackburn, so we'll see how good a manager Paul Lambert really is. If he can turn Villa around I'll be impressed. As far as the title goes, it'll naturally be between City and United, who will probably be inseparable for most the season. As it stands I don't think either team can be challenged. Chelsea are going to have to go through a slight mini transitional period as they look to replace the old guard, and I think the loss of Drogba will be huge for them. He carried them last season when they needed it, and has been pivotal for a number of years. The same old story of what to do about the Lampard's and Terry's who have both peaked and are now winding down will no doubt rear it's head as the season progresses. Arsenal are still well off the title for me. Especially if they lose Walcott. As are Spurs, as they seem to have shot themselves in the foot by sacking Harry Redknapp. I do think though that at current prices I'd rather back United at 3.5 than City at 2.5 because had United not capitulated against Everton towards the end of the season, and had City not had to score two late late goals against Q.P.R. then the trophy would have been heading in the red direction of Manchester. Newcastle will be an interesting one to watch because if they add well, keep their players, and start well they are a decent shout to challenge again for fourth. My only worry there is how they will cope with European football this season, as that can often be an unwanted distraction for sides that aren't used to it year on year.

[Craigdh123]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 Stanjames have a second season syndrome special. Out of QPR, Swansea and Norwich QPR are the favourites and in my opinion deservedly so. Both the other clubs have 2 new managers and who knows how that will go for them. Swansea will struggle the most to hit the heights of last season as teams have had a season to learn how they play and will probably adapt to this and be more successful this season against them, assuming they try to play to a similar style. QPR have a good manager in Hughes, who will get the best out of his players and will be a far more formidable opponent in the upcoming season compared to last. They have a decent set of players, albeit with some loose cannons (Barton and Cisse). Should be a very good and close season throughout the league. Is there any bets out there that you can put on for the amount of points between 12th and 20th place at the end of the season? In an under/overs market? Craig

[Jase82]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 Yes I have looked at the stats, and had a look at all three teams :ok tbh I'm always looking for sides that have goals in them when approaching a tougher league because we've seen how tight defensive sides can struggle away from home in this league. The EPL is a lot tougher, and they will find their chances of conceding a lot higher, so Reading will need to learn how to win from behind, or claw a game back. I've said I think the Russian guy is a great signing (please don't ask me to spell his name again :loon), but you could say the same about them as you have done about Lambert at Southampton. It's not really worth IMO looking at who might get injured. I think if that should happen they have a great player in Billy Sharp, and another decent acquisition in Jay Rodriguez. Both can step up I feel, in the same way Holt did at Norwich. They have players like Adam Lallana that could be one to watch this season, and will get a few from midfield. Bottom line is I tend to favour sides that can score goals, as goals win games.... :unsure ..... but yes, Reading could come up and win a load of games 1-0. We will see. Regarding West Ham, I think we both tend to agree that it is their style that may be their undoing. Why do you think Everton can finish 4th? (out of interest)

[south_eastern_ram]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 I thought Reading needed to strengthen big time and they've made some shrewd signings so far imo. Pogrebnyak, Danny Guthrie who i rate, good passer of the ball, and Gareth McCleary will all improve there side. Kebe and Karacan are good players and Jason Roberts is if anything a handful. They'll need to strengthen at the back, Ian Harte and Gorks wont cut it at this level.

[hoddspur]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 Although it's a bit early, my prediction for the top 6 is: 1. Man City 2. Man Utd 3. Chelsea 4. Arsenal 5. Tottenham 6. Liverpool My analysis of each team: 1. Man City - Although they have not bought anyone so far this summer i still think they will retain their title as their near challengers haven't really strengthened. IMO Man City have the best defence in the league with the best centre-back and goalkeeper in the league in Kompany and Hart. They have flair in attack with the likes of Silva and Aguero and they have an absolute beast in Yaya Toure who in my eyes is possibly their most important player. They showed last year that not only can they blow teams away but they can also grind out results and deal with the pressure and the number of times they came from behind to win during the run-in last year was incredible. Lets be honest how can you not back this team for the title when they have Silva, Aguero, Tevez, Nasri and Balotelli in their squad. No other premier league team even comes close to their firepower upfront. 2. Man Utd - This is a tough call for second place between United and Chelsea as although i think that Chelsea have more naturally gifted players, United have a strong core and a winning mentality like no other and i expect them to give City a run for their money again next season. The addition of Kagawa and Nick Powell could potentially be two cracking signings but will Kagawa be able to handle the premier league? I'm not so sure. Their defence seems to be getting weaker each year and i think that United could leak quite a few goals next year because De Gea is still a bit suspect, Ferdinand has got a year older and slower and Vidic has constant injury problems so i think they need reinforcements at the back to win back the title. Their midfield has bags of experience with Scholes and Giggs and they have three good wingers in Valencia, Young and Nani and Carrick does his job in the middle of the park well. Up front they look good with Rooney, Welbeck, Hernandez, Berbatov and new boy Kagawa playing between the midfield and striker. Their experience and winnig mentality will see them challenge again but i think they are too weak at the back to win the league. 3. Chelsea - I think that Chelsea will challenge for the title this year and be in a three horse race with United and City. The addition of Hazard and Marin were smart signings but the only reason why Chelsea won't win the league next year is because of the loss of Drogba. Without their talisman they only really have Torres and Lukaku as out and out strikers but if they add a striker with similar qualities to Drogba then to me they look good value at 5/1 to win the league. Their defence is fairly solid and i can see Cahill and Terry building a strong partnership at the back. They have experience in midfield with Lampard and Meireles and they also have Ramires who i rate very highly. I would expect their front three to be Hazard, Torres and Mata barring any new signings and this looks like a strong attack but if they want to win the title they must buy another striker. 4. Arsenal - I don't think Arsenal will be in the title race and can see them fighting with Tottenham for a Champions League spot again and i think they will just edge out Spurs unfortunately. The likely loss of Van Persie would be a huge blow to them but the signings of Podolski and Giroud are impressive. At the back they still look a bit dodgy and i think Szecsney is very overrated (although i would say that as i'm a Spurs fan). They have two good full-backs in Sagna and Gibbs although they like to attack so they could get exploited down the wings and although Vermaelen is a top player i don't really rate Koscielny. Their midfield looks fairly strong when Wilshere is back with Alex Song and Arteta in the middle as well. It's hard to guess what their front three will be if RVP goes but they have quite a few options in Podolski, Giroud, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Gervinho. I think it will be tight in the battle for a Champions League spot but i think Arsenal will just get it again as they simply have a mental edge over Spurs. 5. Tottenham - The sacking of Redknapp was not actually that surprising to me and was actually the correct decision as IMO he had taken us as far as we could go under him as he is not tactically good enough to take us further than fourth. The appointment of AVB is interesting and could potentially be a disaster or a brilliant move by Levy. The loss of Modric won't be a huge miss IMO as he is a very overrated player and doesn't create enough goalscoring opportunities, doesn't score enough goals and goes missing too often in big games and looks disinterested a lot of the time. If Spurs can get in a quality striker and keep hold of Van Der Vaart then we could finish in the top four but until we sign a top striker i can't see us finishing higher than fifth. The signing of Sigurdsson is a good one in my eyes but i don't really know where he will play because he plays in a similar position to Van Der Vaart and i can't see him taking his place unless Rafa leaves. Under AVB i think we will concede a lot of goals although the signing of Vertonghen if it does happen would be a good one and i think he could potentially build a great partnership with Kaboul. Our midfield is by far our strongest area with Lennon and Bale on the wings and Sandro or Parker playing as the defensive midfielder but the only question is who will take Modric's place as i don't think we will play both Sandro and Parker particularly at home. Spurs still lack a winning mentality and i think they will miss out on fourth spot as they are still too inconsistent. 6. Liverpool - I think the appointment of Brendan Rodgers will be a success for Liverpool but i still can't see them finishing higher than 6th next season. Their defence is solid and they concede few goals but it is in attack and midfield where they struggle. Their midfield is very poor when compared to previous years in the days of Alonso, Mascherano and the old Gerrard whereas now they have a lot of average players in Adam, Downing, Henderson etc.that are not game changers and Gerrard is past his best as well. Up front, Suarez is a good player but nothing special IMO and doesn't score enough goals to be considered as one of the best in the league. Andy Carroll looks like he is starting to hit form and getting back to how he played at Newcastle and on his day he is a real handful. They have the experience of Bellamy who is a decent player to come off the bench. IMO it will take quite a few years to get Liverpool back to challenging for the title and i think that Brendan Rodgers could be the man to do it but Liverpool fans will have to be patient as right now they lack a player who can turn a game around in an instant. I will post my season bets closer to the start of the season when more transfers are done. GL all :ok

[aliando]

I'll join jase in posting painful supporting comments over my rivals :lol Swansea have lost Rodgers to Liverpool but I'm not convinced the loss is that great. I've said several times here that the club as it stands now, was built between the chairman (huw Jenkins) and previous manager roberto Martinez. Jenkins had a vision of the brand of football he wanted and Martinez was able to lay the foundation. As Martinez left, Jenkins sought to appoint a manager who would maintain the brand and push the club forward. Paulownia Sousa was appointed, did poorly and was sacked. Jenkins applied the same formula and brought in Rodgers who took them up and kept them up. Laudrup's appointment follows the same philosophy that Jenkins has been using. Laudrup's career in management appears quite impressive, relative to swansea's aims. 4 years at brondby, lowest finish in league was 2nd and won cup in first year. He's been linked with more than twice the clubs than he's been at but had spells with getafe, spartak Moscow and Mallorca. He had success, relevant to the clubs goals in Spain but was sacked in 7 months from the Russians. What may worry the jacks more is his lack of staying power with any of the clubs, once things aren't exactly how he wants them... Player wise, they don't seem to be shedding any of their "stars" and there may be a few signings on the way. Jenkins has gone on record saying laudrup will not have significant funds but local press seem quite positive that 2 signings are quite close in the 2-3million pound bracket. Significantly, I believe laudrup has much more pulling power player-wise to bring in players, particularly from Spain and Scandinavia. I think Swansea will be bottom half this season but not entirely sure that the second season tag applies to them quite as much, given the new manager. Their signings will be key, for me, as a signal of their intentions. Poor/no/few signings and they'll be battling relegation come may.

[Mindfulness]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13

Poor/no/few signings and they'll be battling delegation come may.

Bloody diplomacy can be a real drag.

[aliando]

Bloody diplomacy can be a real drag.

:$

[Mirage]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 The price on Swansea to be relegated has come in with most firms now and although I standby my original post that flagged them up as candidates to go down, I would probably want a bigger price than what is currently available. My view is that teams will have them figured out so, unless they develop a Plan B they can revert to when the passing game isn't working, they will be in trouble. If they lose one or two players they will be in real danger but at the same time, a couple of really solid signings could see them comfortably safe.

[aliando]

What prices did you see on Swansea and where did you see them? Bet365 are doing 2/1 but I doubt it will stay that way once supply and demand comes into play in a few weeks time... I wouldn't bother at the moment on 2/1 either though I think there is probably 50/50 chance they will get relegated.

Surely if you see it as 50/50, then 2/1 screams value?

[ThePerfectOne]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13

Brooke - I'm shocked that you think Chelsea cannot even finish in top 4. It's just strange that you think the current holders of the champions league and the FA cup can't finish above, say, Tottenham/Newcastle, Arsenal, and even Man United. Chelsea's league position was an anomaly last year, all things considered -- the manager's strategy was a losing one from the start and when he left the league was already lost and not much effort was paid into it at all. Next season you will get the squad that won the CL and the FA with proper/non-false wingers minus Drogba. I would really say any bet on Chelsea lower than top 3 is giving your money away.

[Jase82]

Also I think Norwich and Southampton could be facing relegation struggles, as they tend to rely on one or two players rather than the whole team and if those players leave or get injured ... Well it might be a tough time for them. .

Out of interest, which two players do you think Norwich and Southampton rely on? I disagree btw as I think both, especially Norwich have a pretty strong work ethic.

[Mirage]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13

Bet365 are doing 2/1 but I doubt it will stay that way once supply and demand comes into play in a few weeks time... I wouldn't bother at the moment on 2/1 either though I think there is probably 50/50 chance they will get relegated.

On Odds-Comparison i saw them available at 5/2 about 3 weeks ago - i'm not sure who it was with as I was just looking out of interest rather than with a view to get on the price then. That was the standout price as the others were all 2/1-9/4.

[neilovan]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 Hello all, I see some weird predictions regarding Chelsea for the coming season. They are going to have a poor season. Their win in the champions league was the biggest fluke since liverpool's win in 2005. Di Matteo has not a clue regarding defense and defensive structure. They will leak goals, and he will prob be fired February 2013. As WBA manager between june 2009 and feb 6th 2011 he managed 1 clean sheet in 24 league games. That's appalling. Man City will underperform again , and win the league again (just too many great players will overcome the managers ineptitude). Man United's collective whole will be greater than the parts, and they will challenge for the title. 2011 was really a horrible season, winning nothing, not achieving the 2nd round of champions league. You gotta be puzzled by the demise of Dimitar Berbitov. Surely he would have been a better option that either Hernadez or Wellbeck ? Spurs will struggle with the new manager, who really has not come to terms with English football. Porto in supaliga where 2 of 3 games are complete walkovers is hardly a yardstick !!! Arsenal will be solid, and much better than they were last year. Wenger may be petulant but he is an excellent manager. Liverpool will be vastly improved from last year. Andy Carrol will start scoring goals. Kenny Dalglish may have been a favorite there but as a manager he was very average. SO its Man City Man U Arsenal Liverpool Chelsea Spurs Just my 2c

[aliando]

I've got concerns about chelsea's top 4 credentials too but wouldn't use the west broom era as an argument, personally - very different players and budgets available to di Matteo at the times. What goes in their favour is the potential weakening of spurs (AVB) and Newcastle (increased games with uefa cup) and I'm not sure Liverpool will challenge this early (if at all) under Rodgers.

[neilovan]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 Liverpool drew 9 games at home last season. That won't happen again this year. Its better to win 6 and lose 3 than draw 9, so their style of play will change. Chelsea or WBA makes no difference. Clueless is Clueless, the location changed :D There are other factors with this season. Like a World Cup Year, the Euro Champs extends the season. What effect will the Olympics have ? Do the players that competed come back tired, or carrying a niggle ? I have been doing quite a bit of research into season performance. ie What kind of win/draw/loss rates do teams have in Aug, Sept,Oct vs. March,April, May ? The big squaded teams tend to be more solid in the later months. Makes sense. Less fatigue, fewer injuries, higher quality replacements. Predicting individual games in first few weeks of the season is a minefield...

[Crobino]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 I am Over/Under punter. What do you think guys wich teams will be Over teams this season, and wich Under ? Thanks...

[western skies]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 Some interesting thoughts about Swansea and, in particular, second-season syndrome in here. I'm not that convinced by second season syndrome myself, as it sounds like one of those buzz phrases invented by lazy TV pundits (I can almost hear Mark Lawrenson droning on about it on the Football Focus couch as I type), so I did a little digging and shamelessly stole these stats from another forum. I have checked them mind and they are accurate! They cover all the promoted sides from the Championship over the last 11 seasons and show how many seasons each club survived in the Premier League. I've not included last season as, obviously, we don't know if any of these clubs will make it past the 2nd season or not. 2000/2001 Fulham 11+ (the plus means still there and ongoing) Blackburn 11 (relegated last season) Bolton 11 (relegated last season) 2001/2002 Manchester City 10+ WBA 1 Birmingham 4 2002/2003 Portsmouth 7 Leicester 1 Wolves 1 2003/2004 Norwich 1 WBA 2 Crystal Palace 1 2004/2005 Sunderland 1 Wigan 7+ West Ham 6 2005/2006 Reading 2 Sheff Utd 1 Watford 1 2006/2007 Sunderland 5+ Birmingham 1 Derby 1 2007/2008 WBA 1 Stoke 4+ Hull 2 2008/2009 Wolves 3 Birmingham 2 Burnley 1 2009/2010 Newcastle 2+ WBA 2+ Blackpool 1 To summarise: 13 clubs went straight back down after 1 season 4 clubs survived for 2 seasons 1 club survived for 3 seasons (*2 clubs have survived 2 seasons and are about to start their 3rd season*) 1 club survived for 4 seasons 9 clubs have survived for 5 or more seasons So, out of 30 promoted clubs since 2001, only 4 have succumbed to second season syndrome. In fact, if a club makes it past their 1st season, then they are most likely to survive for at least 5 years in the Premier League. Another argument that often gets puts forward is that sides are somehow "found out" in their 2nd season. Again, I find this a strange assumption to make. Why is a side more likely to be "found out" after 38 games than after 20 games or 15 games? Were Swansea's opponents from January onwards blissfully unaware of their style of play over the previous 4 months? I'd argue that if a team is going to be "found out", then it will usually happen during their first season in the Premier League. Blackpool are a clear case in point here. In their solitary PL season, they had amassed 25 points by the halfway point (19 games), but gained only another 14 during the 2nd half of the season as teams learned how to counter their attacking style. Similarly, Hull, who did succumb to relegation in their 2nd season, were also fairly obviously sussed out during their 1st season, gaining 27 points from their 1st 19 games in 2008/09 and just 8 points thereafter, surviving by a single point. Contrast that with Swansea, who actually reversed the trend and performed better in the second half of their debut season than they did in the first (20pts after 19 games, 47pts after 38, so an extra 7pts in the 2nd half of the season). The trend suggests that, far from working them out, Swansea's opponents continued to struggle to break down their passing game, despite having already seen it in action over the first half of the season. Of course, Laudrup's appointment is the great unknown here. The stats suggest that the Swans had an effective way of playing in the Premier League under Brendan Rodgers and, if Laudrup tries to tinker with that style too much, he could undo a lot of the good work from last season. My gut feeling is that he won't try to change too much too soon. His teams have a reputation for playing good football and the 5 years he spent at Barcelona as a player between 1989 and 1994 would suggest he's well schooled in that style of football. If anything, his name might help the club attract players that may have been out of their range with Rodgers at the helm, so it's worth keeping an eye on their transfer activity as well. As for relegation, well of course it's a possibility, but at around the 2/1 mark across the board, I don't see much value on the Swans at the moment, particularly when the likes of Villa (Jase's shout) are available at 8s. :ok

[western skies]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 I'll tidy this thread up in a tick, but if anyone wants to contact Brooke privately, please either PM him (you need more than 50 posts and to have been a member for at least 2 weeks to use the PM facility) or go via his website link in his signature. Please don't ask for email addresses or Facebook links on the public forum. :ok

[Mirage]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 I fully understand what you are saying Western Skies but I think this 'second season syndrome' phrase only applies in a certain circumstances (for me anyway). I have thought about it with Swansea but only to go with possible lack of solid signings and the departure of their manager - not just purely thinking that teams will figure them out and that's it. If there are no signings to help them progress and the manager changes too much/too little I think 'second season syndrome' could well come in to play when used in the context of the opposition being ready for them more often.

[Jase82]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 Is anyone else looking at Fulham? I fear they may be heading backwards this coming season as they seem to have lost a big chunk of last seasons goalscorers. The last two seasons are the only two recent seasons where they have risen considerably above the forty goals scored mark. Already they've lost Andy Johnson (3), Bobby Zamora (5), Danny Murphy (2), and Pavel Pogrebnyak (6). Although on their own there shouldn't be too much cause for concern, collectively there are some big characters there, that you felt could get the goals when required. Especially the Russian guy who has moved on to Reading, who looked scintillating last season. Currently they don't look like they're heading forward, and may possible be susceptible to the dangers of complacency as there isn't anywhere for them to really go. The squad looks a bit like it's need of freshening up too. How long have they been in the league now? Since 2001? Could be their time. Deffinitely one to watch to see what sort of business they do in the transfer window. Also I feel Clint Dempsey has probably reached his peak, and I'd be surprised if he gets anywhere near seventeen league goals again. And losing the graft of Danny Murphy to work alongside is going to mean other players will have to put in a bigger shift.

[wisey10]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13 Brooke, if you are offering up 7/1 on Chelsea to finish in the top 4, I wil have a bit of that please!!! Clearly a punt on Chelsea at this stage is risky. But Abramovic looks like he is getting his cheque book out. They've brought in Marin who has a very good reputation and splashed out big money on Hazard. Talk of Maicon has died down but he would be an excellent signing at right back. Today Bayrern have confirmed they have turned down a 20m bid from Chelsea for Schurrie who also would have been an excellent addition. Drogba is a massive, massive loss but you can be sure that a quality striker will be coming in. In chech, cole, terry, Cahill/Luiz and potentially Maicon, they would have a top, top defence. In midfield they have already made 2 very good signings in Marin and Hazard on top of the current players such as mikel, Essien, meireless, mata, ramires and lampard and they look to have a lot of depth there. The bid for Schurrie suggests they are still not finished and another big addition could be on the cards. Up front, It's make or break for Torres whilst I rate Sturridge at least as highly as Wellbeck. They will need to bring in another top striker and this could be crucial for Di Matteo. Overall they are shaping up to have a very strong squad. They had a very poor season in the league last year but that's because the players clearly had issues with AVB. Di Matteo is raw as a manager but their results completely turned for the better after he was appointed. They are the only side outside of Manchester who I think can challenge for the title and they will need Abramovic to keep on spending to do so. I won't be backing them at the 9/2 widely available but anything at 6/1 or better could be appealing IMHO. They should certainly have a squad capable on paper of competing. The main worries with them will be that all the new foreign signings could take time adapting to the prem and the fact that Di Matteo lacks experience. Purely looking player wise, I think they will be at least equal to Man Utd.

[wisey10]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13

Is anyone else looking at Fulham? I fear they may be heading backwards this coming season as they seem to have lost a big chunk of last seasons goalscorers. The last two seasons are the only two recent seasons where they have risen considerably above the forty goals scored mark. Already they've lost Andy Johnson (3), Bobby Zamora (5), Danny Murphy (2), and Pavel Pogrebnyak (6). Although on their own there shouldn't be too much cause for concern, collectively there are some big characters there, that you felt could get the goals when required. Especially the Russian guy who has moved on to Reading, who looked scintillating last season. Currently they don't look like they're heading forward, and may possible be susceptible to the dangers of complacency as there isn't anywhere for them to really go. The squad looks a bit like it's need of freshening up too. How long have they been in the league now? Since 2001? Could be their time. Deffinitely one to watch to see what sort of business they do in the transfer window. Also I feel Clint Dempsey has probably reached his peak, and I'd be surprised if he gets anywhere near seventeen league goals again. And losing the graft of Danny Murphy to work alongside is going to mean other players will have to put in a bigger shift.

Yeah, not a bad call. There was talk early on that Dempsey could be on his way but that seems to have cooled down. His loss would have been a massive blow. Certainly worth keeping an eye on their activity. my team Stoke were very poor in the 2nd half of last season and are also worth keeping an eye on. I don't know whether you can put it down o the euro campaign or that was just a convenient scape goat. This looks to be the strongest premier league since we were promoted 4 seasons ago. None of the teams who have come up look Certs for relegation and they all have a bit of money to spend. Of the teams who came up last year, qpr are spending big money and I can't see them struggling. Norwich and Swansea both could be in danger having lost their respective managers who kept them up last season. Overall it could be very tight this season at the bottom though so there is a good chance of someone being relegated at a fairly big price. Sunderland see Bendtner leaving after his loan finished and look very light up front. They really need to sign a decent striker this pre season. O'neil had a magnificent start but results really dropped off later on. McLean might be in for a tougher season now defenders know more about him. Its too early to make proper Calls regarding relegation yet but the fact that it should be so competitive means there could be some value about.

[The Saint]

Re: Antepost > 2012/13

Well obvious one is Ricky Lambert, with his 31 goals if you take those out the team they are in big trouble, also without (should he get suspended or injured) Adam Lallana I think they will really struggle. Norwich do have a good ethic, and I have always liked them as a team but I don't think they are quite the same without Grant Holt. Even at 31 he scores a terrific amount of goals and is always a real threat for them, holding the ball up so they can retain possession. If he isn't in the team they don't offer the same level of threat to teams and tend to end up defending more of the game. Hoolahan is another player I quite like but I think without those 2 Norwich are actually pretty toothless. Of course it's just my opinion but that's what I think based on the last few seasons, and the competition for this coming season.

Adam Lallana is by far our most important player. Ahead of Lambert for sure. Billy Sharpe (from what I have seen) does not yet have the anticipation or pace to be effective in the Prem. The Japanese lad (name escapes me) may well be up to the task (he is still with us right?) Tankari Lee? Is that it?! Dunno - anyway - he is quality and plays without fear. Lee Barnard has been forgotten following an injury too. Whilst Lambert is our obvious goal threat, the whole team does contribute goals.