England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

[bowles10]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

but last season was the championship. a much bigger step up the premier league as you no. i think SWP and taraabt are good players and will create chances' date=' but i cant see either bothroyd or campbell getting double figures. im not having a go at QPR as i like them being a proper traditional club, unlike the hull's, wigans of this world who shouldnt be anywhere near the premier league. I would even go as far as saying bothroyd is the worst striker in the league, how he gets paid to be a footballer i do not know. I want QPR to stay up and enjoyed watching them monday night, so dont think its a personal dig, just stressing the point they will struggle to score[/quote'] thats fine mate, but although my reference to clean sheets last year eas meant to show how warnock sets up the team, alhtough we did score around 80 goals last year. we nnow have players WITH prem experience. Not sure about bothroyd yet, but he cant be the worst in the premier, i am sure of that. He holds the ball up well and proved last year that he can be a goalscorer. time will tell mate !!

[Jase82]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

They didn't just play in Europe.... they played BADLY in Europe. And were lucky in the last premier league game against Liverpool. Regarding Gyan.... I doubt if they are gonna miss him. With all the bullshit what was around him, I think it's better to have somebody who actually wants to play for this team and not some player who is thinking when to leave this club.

Badly? Were you watching the same game :) I thought Stoke were a lot better than I imagined. I mean let's not forget they were playing their first away fixture in European football for 40 odd years, at a very tough place to go. They played their normal style, very defensively minded, looking to break up play any way they can, and kept organised. They limited Kiev to very few real chances. I believe there was only one clear cut chance for Kiev in the first half, and at times they struggled to break Stoke down. Really, anyone that thought Stoke would play any differently to the way they did can not have been watching much Premier League football over the last three years :unsure

[Profit Prophet]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

I think the effect of Stoke playing on Thursday night has been exaggerated slightly. Only Huth' date=' Shawcross and Upson started both games and Stoke have a big squad now and are very hard to beat. I understand people being weary about backing a team who are just back from Europe but Sunderland have been very disappointing since the opening day draw at Liverpool and despite Bendtner being a decent signing they will miss Asamoah Gyan, just think people should be careful about that one, some seem to think its a gimme just because Stoke played away in Europe.[/quote'] It (stoke in europe) is certainly a factor but heres a few more : Stoke haven't won at Sunderland in last 3 (since joined prem) Stoke haven't scored at Sunderland in last 3 visits Bruce starts seasons well Just my opinion, but this is the bet of the season so far @ 2.37 for a home win :hope

[Profit Prophet]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

Badly? Were you watching the same game :) I thought Stoke were a lot better than I imagined. I mean let's not forget they were playing their first away fixture in European football for 40 odd years, at a very tough place to go. They played their normal style, very defensively minded, looking to break up play any way they can, and kept organised. They limited Kiev to very few real chances. I believe there was only one clear cut chance for Kiev in the first half, and at times they struggled to break Stoke down. Really, anyone that thought Stoke would play any differently to the way they did can not have been watching much Premier League football over the last three years :unsure

Playing styles other than Barcelona-esque doesn;t mean it's playing badly. Stoke had their system and executed it well. They rode their luck at times but most teams do. I agree with you Jase and sometimes it makes you wonder how someone can come to a judgement on the same games we saw but have opposing views on :unsure

[Denman]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

Badly? Were you watching the same game :) I thought Stoke were a lot better than I imagined. I mean let's not forget they were playing their first away fixture in European football for 40 odd years, at a very tough place to go. They played their normal style, very defensively minded, looking to break up play any way they can, and kept organised. They limited Kiev to very few real chances. I believe there was only one clear cut chance for Kiev in the first half, and at times they struggled to break Stoke down. Really, anyone that thought Stoke would play any differently to the way they did can not have been watching much Premier League football over the last three years :unsure

Five at the back with three defensive midfielders was a new on me for Stoke. But point taken Stoke always sit back and play on the counter away from home. Usually with two banks of four it was more like a bank of five and a bank of four on Thursday. That being said they worked extremely hard but where fortunate to get a point in my opinion, Kiev had a least ten good goalscoring chances in that game. Sunderland v Stoke looks like a nailed on unders to me. Although odds don't really make that much appeal.

[pg_yid]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September Man United @ 1.91 (Ladbrokes) Man U have won 20 of their last 21 at home, this to me says they should not be as high as 1.91 against anyone except Barca/Real. Hernandez will play after being rested midweek and his runs behind the defence should greatly trouble Chelsea, with Ruiz looking wobbly defensively and Terry not the fastest anymore. United have looked the better of these two sides so far this season, with their new signings already looking like they've gelled. At times Chelsea have looked poor at the back, although maybe less so away from home. I think United should have too much for them. Wigan +1 (AH) @ 2.05 (Bet365) Agree with what has been said about this one. Everton struggled last season in this kind of fixture and this looks set to continue after losing Arteta and failing to sign a top striker. I think we could see a repeat of QPR game, if not in the exact scoreline then in the general way the game is played out. 1.53ish is a joke for the home win and IMO they need to be opposed in some form.

[dak]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September Swansea - West Bromwich Albion (WBA): WBA @ 2.80 (Ladbrokes) 10/10 Swansea sits in 19th place with a 0-2-2 record and a 0:5 goals differential. The fact that the hosts haven't scored a single goal in 4 matches makes it difficult to consider them as favourites in any match at the moment. WBA sits in 13th place with a 1-0-3 record. I feel that the guests were unlucky to lose their three matches. At home against Manchester Utd. they lost (1-2) as a result of an own goal in the 81'. At Chelsea they lost (2-1) as a result of a goal in the 83'. At home they lost to Stoke (0-1) as a result of a goal in the 90+'. So, WBA's record should be viewed with a grain of salt, I think. WBA's win came at Norwich (0-1) which is another newly promoted team like Swansea. I believe the guests are a more experienced Premier League team with a good coach and should defeat Swansea. The odds for WBA's win are certainly worth the risk. Good Luck...:hope

[ofcourseitwas]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

It (stoke in europe) is certainly a factor but heres a few more : Stoke haven't won at Sunderland in last 3 (since joined prem) Stoke haven't scored at Sunderland in last 3 visits Bruce starts seasons well Just my opinion, but this is the bet of the season so far @ 2.37 for a home win :hope

Stats aren't coming as much into play here as Stoke's new signings will result in more confidence/energy at the prospect of being a real fixture in the Premiership. At the moment this is a different team compared to that which has played at SOL the last 3 times. Odds are correct, stoke won't lose this one..

[Profit Prophet]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

Stats aren't coming as much into play here as Stoke's new signings will result in more confidence/energy at the prospect of being a real fixture in the Premiership. At the moment this is a different team compared to that which has played at SOL the last 3 times. Odds are correct' date=' stoke won't lose this one..[/quote'] I disagree, the stats are telling just as Bruce's history of starting seasons well is. As i put in my write up, this is an A star bet for me and i've had 7 other A star bets so far this season, all winning. I don't really like this statement from you '' stoke won't lose this one..'' you don;t know that just as much as i don't know for sure if sunderland will win 4-0 or lose 4-0. There are too many variables that can effect the outcome, bad luck, ref decision, cards, weather, injuries during game etc... I never recommend or follow a bet based on a single example, it's all about averages linked to odds (or value). Considering all the factors, h2h, stokes travels etc... sunderland offer the best value at 2.37. If Sunderland were 1.50 for eg, i wouldn't take the bet because i don't believe sunderland will win this game everytime but enough times to give a profit at the odds available. That doesn't mean it's worth backing every 10/1 shot just because you think a team can win more than 10% of the time and give a profit. It's still about taking those averages, as i/we see it and then protecting the negative outcomes as best as possible. The odds are wrote up as though this is a normal league game where both sides have had a weeks rest. Given that fact along with the other pros for sunderland now is the 'right' time to take on sunderland and protect against the negative outcomes (stoke win or draw). Doesn't mean sunderland will win but it's an educated and considered bet that i believe uses solid principles that when used for hundreds of bets over a season will generate my target profit.

[ofcourseitwas]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

I disagree, the stats are telling just as Bruce's history of starting seasons well is. As i put in my write up, this is an A star bet for me and i've had 7 other A star bets so far this season, all winning. I don't really like this statement from you '' stoke won't lose this one..'' you don;t know that just as much as i don't know for sure if sunderland will win 4-0 or lose 4-0. There are too many variables that can effect the outcome, bad luck, ref decision, cards, weather, injuries during game etc... I never recommend or follow a bet based on a single example, it's all about averages linked to odds (or value). Considering all the factors, h2h, stokes travels etc... sunderland offer the best value at 2.37. If Sunderland were 1.50 for eg, i wouldn't take the bet because i don't believe sunderland will win this game everytime but enough times to give a profit at the odds available. That doesn't mean it's worth backing every 10/1 shot just because you think a team can win more than 10% of the time and give a profit. It's still about taking those averages, as i/we see it and then protecting the negative outcomes as best as possible. The odds are wrote up as though this is a normal league game where both sides have had a weeks rest. Given that fact along with the other pros for sunderland now is the 'right' time to take on sunderland and protect against the negative outcomes (stoke win or draw). Doesn't mean sunderland will win but it's an educated and considered bet that i believe uses solid principles that when used for hundreds of bets over a season will generate my target profit.

yes, he's had an excellent start so far :eyes Citing the winning percentage of your 'A star bets' seems just as much a sure claim of victory as mine that Sunderland won't win. It is all about momentum and confidence here, Sunderland don't have it and Stoke will assert themselves. I don't see value in these odds, the teams are far nearer to level pegging this weekend than bookies' opinion suggests. Thanks for the crash course in bet value, though. :clap

[Profit Prophet]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

yes' date= he's had an excellent start so far :eyes Liverpool away 1-1, good result Newcastle home 0-1 , local derby,usual football trends go out the window swansea away 0-0, decent result against a side highly motivated to get first win and a good start Chelsea home 1-2, as expected It's yet to be seen if this seasons start will be good imo. However, sunderland,wigan, brum have started well (1st ten games) under bruce, its after xmas they falter. Citing the winning percentage of your 'A star bets' seems just as much a sure claim of victory as mine that Sunderland won't win. Not at all, but if i'm going to take the time to contribute to the forum i'll explain my strength of feeling too. Also, hit ratio and profit does affect my credibility i imagine, i know i consider it when considering someones views. Why would i listen to someone who makes a loss season after season? It is all about momentum and confidence here, Sunderland don't have it and Stoke will assert themselves. I don't see value in these odds, the teams are far nearer to level pegging this weekend than bookies' opinion suggests. That wasn't a crash course in value. It was an explaination in reply to your statement 'stoke wont lose; I find those kind of comments very naive and needless. I think other punters with experience will agree. Thanks for the crash course in bet value, though. :clap

.

[samo154]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September has steve bruce had a good start?

[ofcourseitwas]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

That wasn't a crash course in value, value is far more indepth than that imo. It was a explaination in reply to your statement ''stoke wont lose'' I find those kind of comments very naive and needless. I think other punters with experience will agree with me.

you would find them naive as we share different opinions...but let me restate "stoke wont lose": I believe there is more value backing stoke +0.5 than a sunderland win. Naturally you can never be 100% on a pick, it is simply an opinion, otherwise anyone would spend their entire bankroll on that single and this goes without saying.. now let's call a truce...we hunt for value in different ways and as such have arrived at different conclusions, we'll know the result come Sunday

[The Mug]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

Liverpool away 1-1, good result Newcastle home 0-1 , local derby,usual football trends go out the window swansea away 0-0, decent result against a side highly motivated to get first win and a good start Chelsea home 1-2, as expected

1) Agreed. 2) Lazy punditry there. Form is as important as ever in derby games. 3) All sides are highly motivated to win and make a good start. 4) Agreed. It's arguable that Sunderland's starting form can be mitigated slightly, but that's nowhere near saying that they've made a good start. But hey, what do I know? My bets are all B-minus at best. :sad

[Profit Prophet]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

has steve bruce had a good start?

The good start is seasons past when he managed wigan/brum and sunderland. This season is yet to be decided. However, they have had tough fixtures. The importance of this for me, is that it's another pro regards backing sunderland in that Bruce seems to beable to motivate his teams pre xmas and not so much post xmas. It's not the main point, h2h, strength of teams and stoke travels are more or just as important but it is a worthy point. I wouldn't back sunderland @ 2.37 given the same circumstances in middle of feb due to trend of Bruce slumping after xmas with Wigan and sunderland. Said everything i've to say on sunderland now. It's a very good bet and offers alot of value and also protects against the unknown/ bad luck variables imo. If people wish to follow, good luck and lets hope it comes off and the reasoning/logic is rewarded. For those who disagree, good luck too but not in this game. :ok

[Profit Prophet]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

you would find them naive as we share different opinions...but let me restate "stoke wont lose": I believe there is more value backing stoke +0.5 than a sunderland win. Naturally you can never be 100% on a pick, it is simply an opinion, otherwise anyone would spend their entire bankroll on that single and this goes without saying.. now let's call a truce...we hunt for value in different ways and as such have arrived at different conclusions, we'll know the result come Sunday

How can you restate 'stoke wont lose' but then say ' naturally you can never be 100% on a pick''? Do you not see the contradiction?

[The Mug]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

How can you restate 'stoke wont lose' but then say ' naturally you can never be 100% on a pick''? Do you not see the contradiction?

To be honest, it's about as semantically dubious as "form goes out of the window in derby games" or "[team] will surely be fired up for this one". Everyone knows what he means - don't lose too much sleep over it. :ok

[Profit Prophet]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

1) Agreed. 2) Lazy punditry there. Form is as important as ever in derby games. 3) All sides are highly motivated to win and make a good start. 4) Agreed. It's arguable that Sunderland's starting form can be mitigated slightly, but that's nowhere near saying that they've made a good start. But hey, what do I know? My bets are all B-minus at best. :sad

Please read my write ups properly mate. I haven't said sunderland HAVE made a good start. I've said Bruce makes good starts with teams under his management over past seasons or fails to motivate them after xmas. This season is ony 4 games in, it needs at least 6-8 games to be called a start in my opinion. Anyway, its relevent in my analysis of the game as i believe Bruce will motivate and that is a pro for me regards a home win. Whereas after xmas he struggles to motivate them and i wouldn't touch sunderland or any of his teams if trends are reliable feb onwards in games like these.

[Pay Day]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

I'm laying Arsenal at odds of 1.95 on Betfair. They have an injury-prone forward who needs the chance to waste about a dozen sitters before he hits the net (RVP). They have a defence that lacks the focus, cohesion and concentration over 90 minutes to challenge any of the 6 for places. And their midfield looks like it has been assembled by George Graham to strain the life out of the opposition and pray for the old Highbury favourite 1-0. It's a horrible mash up that will surely result in Wenger getting the Arse and missing out on the Champions League next season. The only good thing about this "brave new Arsenal" is their midfield is certainly tough enough to mix it with Blackburn's hard boys these days. But I still can't see them getting a result up there. Draw or home win for me.

Wow, yiddo really gives it away doesn't it....let me guess your a spurs fan? I guess if you bothered watching the game in mid week Arsenal scored with their only shot on target in the first half. Their midfield hardly strains the opposition :lol its not like their Stoke. Alternatively, their midfield probably lacks the quality to exert any authority on games hence why they aren't playing free flowing football that allows their strikers to miss "half a dozen sitters". It might be Bburn win or draw, but it doesn't negate the fact that what you wrote here is utter tripe

[The Mug]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

Please read my write ups properly mate. I haven't said sunderland HAVE made a good start. I've said Bruce makes good starts with teams under his management over past seasons or fails to motivate them after xmas.

Steve Bruce is Sunderland manager, isn't he? I'd argue that his form and Sunderland's form are (at least for the time being) inextricably linked.

This season is ony 4 games in, it needs at least 6-8 games to be called a start in my opinion.

Then why are you attempting to justify Sunderland's results so far? If all results are irrelevant until the sixth game, say so.

Anyway, its relevent in my analysis of the game as i believe Bruce will motivate and that is a pro for me regards a home win.

1) All football managers (with the possible exception of Colin Calderwood) motivate their sides. 2) Steve Bruce's motivation didn't seem to do Sunderland much good against Newcastle.

Whereas after xmas he struggles to motivate them and i wouldn't touch sunderland or any of his teams if trends are reliable feb onwards in games like these.

So form is only relevant after an arbitrary date post-Christmas? I read your write-up; I just think that your logic doesn't stand up to the most cursory analysis. Either way, I'm not having a bet in the game - hope you win! :hope

[Profit Prophet]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

To be honest' date=' it's about as semantically dubious as "form goes out of the window in derby games" or "[team'] will surely be fired up for this one". Everyone knows what he means - don't lose too much sleep over it. :ok

I think you've mistaken trend for form. Perhaps you could learn to read properly? But don't lose too much sleep over it while you're learning :ok End of discussion for me now on this game, i'm not on here to convince people to take on bets. It would be nice pick up a few decent bits of info from others with solid reasoning instead of petty posts that address no football fixtures (cough, post above)

[ofcourseitwas]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

How can you restate 'stoke wont lose' but then say ' naturally you can never be 100% on a pick''? Do you not see the contradiction?

no contradiction, read my whole post. when i said stoke won't lose it should have been understood as a pick, not taken literally as a sure thing. Edit: lol "petty posts that address no football fixtures (cough, post above)" Do you not see the contradiction?

[The Mug]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

I think you've mistaken trend for form. Perhaps you could learn to read properly? But don't lose too much sleep over it while you're learning :ok

I'm aware of the differences between a trend and form. Applying it to Sunderland, I agree that the trend would suggest that their form is relatively worse in the second half of the season than in the first. However, looking at their current form (and I disagree with your assertion that the first few results are essentially irrelevant in determining form), I have no idea how you can conclude, "Sunderland aren't playing well, based on all the evidence available from the start of the season. However, given that they tend to do worse in the second half of the season, that means that their form will get better in the first half, in order to make their post-Christmas slump more tangible!" Your logic is flawed, imo.

End of discussion for me now on this game, i'm not on here to convince people to take on bets. It would be nice pick up a few decent bits of info from others with solid reasoning instead of petty posts that address no football fixtures (cough, post above)

All of my posts have addressed the Sunderland-Stoke game. I think that your reasoning is quite weak, and I've explained why that is. If others find that helpful, then I'm happy. :ok p.s. I've changed my mind because of your arrogance - hope your bet gets gubbed! :p

[Profit Prophet]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

Steve Bruce is Sunderland manager' date= isn't he? I'd argue that his form and Sunderland's form are (at least for the time being) inextricably linked. Then why are you attempting to justify Sunderland's results so far? If all results are irrelevant until the sixth game, say so. 1) All football managers (with the possible exception of Colin Calderwood) motivate their sides. 2) Steve Bruce's motivation didn't seem to do Sunderland much good against Newcastle. So form is only relevant after an arbitrary date post-Christmas? I read your write-up; I just think that your logic doesn't stand up to the most cursory analysis. Either way, I'm not having a bet in the game - hope you win! :hope

Mate, why you trying be a smart arse? What's your beef with my bet and confidence in it? You don't agree fair enough but you're taking time out just to try and disprove little sentences here and there. I've explained the answers to the highlighted points above previously. We're supposed to be here to help each other are we not?

[The Mug]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

Mate, why you trying be a smart arse? What's your beef with my bet and confidence in it? You don't agree fair enough but you're taking time out just to try and disprove little sentences here and there.

I'm not trying to be a smart-arse; after all, I'm not the one telling people to read things properly, and to learn the difference between "trend" and "form". ;)

We're supposed to be here to help each other are we not?

I agree. That said, I think that warning others of the dodgy logic behind your "A* bet" might be quite helpful.

[pablo_3scobar]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September Can Def see QPR winning at 14/5 (bet365) at the weekend despite Wolves starting well to the season. QPR have spent well in the transfer market and they obviously need more times to gel. However they played well against newcastle and think could nick a 0-2 or mayb 1-2 .

[Profit Prophet]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

I'm aware of the differences between a trend and form. Applying it to Sunderland, I agree that the trend would suggest that their form is relatively worse in the second half of the season than in the first. However, looking at their current form (and I disagree with your assertion that the first few results are essentially irrelevant in determining form), I have no idea how you can conclude, "Sunderland aren't playing well, based on all the evidence available from the start of the season. However, given that they tend to do worse in the second half of the season, that means that their form will get better in the first half, in order to make their post-Christmas slump more tangible!" Your logic is flawed, imo. All of my posts have addressed the Sunderland-Stoke game. I think that your reasoning is quite weak, and I've explained why that is. If others find that helpful, then I'm happy. :ok p.s. I've changed my mind because of your arrogance - hope your bet gets gubbed! :p

You've made alot of assumptions here mate!. I haven't disgarded sunderlands first 4 games at all. I actually believe they aren't that bad and show signs that a win is due. Another very mis informed assumption you;ve made is that i believe form needs to pick up pre xmas in order to make the post xmas slump more tangible. I actually use it's relevance in terms of motivation not form. You seem to have an issue with my rating my bets A star? not sure why? It is the best bet of the season so far for me and i've explained why, no need to explain 'my dodgy logic' further. It's there for all to read, they don't agree with the pros for a bet no need to question it further. As for you're other comments,, you're just being stupid and off topic now. Whatever, your reasons it's not neccessary, so we'll just leave it at that hey :ok I saw you;ve placed alot of bets on man city in the weekend thread. I'd be interested to read a write up from you on why you've taken those bets if you'll take the time write it up and use the forum constructively?.

[The Mug]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

You've made alot of assumptions here mate!. I haven't disgarded sunderlands first 4 games at all. I actually believe they aren't that bad and show signs that a win is due. Another very mis informed assumption you;ve made is that i believe form needs to pick up pre xmas in order to make the post xmas slump more tangible. I actually use it's relevance in terms of motivation not form. As for you're other comments,, you're just being stupid and off topic now. Whatever, your reasons it's not neccessary, so we'll just leave it at that hey :ok I saw you;ve placed alot of bets on man city in the weekend thread. I'd be interested to read write up from you on why you've taken those bets if you'll take the time write it up?.

Fair enough! I genuinely wasn't trying to be a smart-arse - sorry if I came across as one. I've changed my mind again - hope Brucey gets Sunderland the win. :D My Man City bets have been placed because: 1) I believe that Man City can name a significantly stronger matchday squad and first XI than Fulham. Ultimately, there's no attribute more important than talent, and the discrepancy is pretty big. 2) Having seen all of their games this season, Man City's style of play is geared towards pretty relentless attacking with pace and flair. Nasri and Aguero are superb signings in this regard. 3) Roberto Mancini has been publicly stating the need to bump up City's goal difference as much as possible, which implies that City wouldn't settle for a 1-0 win on Sunday. 4) I think that the sort of odds available don't accurately reflect a top-2-elect side against a lower-mid-table (if not worse) side. 5) Fulham's form has been relatively poor so far; beaten by Wolves, two low-scoring draws at home to Villa and Blackburn. Their marquee signing (Ruiz) apparently suffers from Alfonso Alves-syndrome, which doesn't bode well! 6) I'm a total mug who backs odds-on shots away from home. :unsure

[Profit Prophet]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

Fair enough! I genuinely wasn't trying to be a smart-arse - sorry if I came across as one. I've changed my mind again - hope Brucey gets Sunderland the win. :D My Man City bets have been placed because: 1) I believe that Man City can name a significantly stronger matchday squad and first XI than Fulham. Ultimately, there's no attribute more important than talent, and the discrepancy is pretty big. 2) Having seen all of their games this season, Man City's style of play is geared towards pretty relentless attacking with pace and flair. Nasri and Aguero are superb signings in this regard. 3) Roberto Mancini has been publicly stating the need to bump up City's goal difference as much as possible, which implies that City wouldn't settle for a 1-0 win on Sunday. 4) I think that the sort of odds available don't accurately reflect a top-2-elect side against a lower-mid-table (if not worse) side. 5) Fulham's form has been relatively poor so far; beaten by Wolves, two low-scoring draws at home to Villa and Blackburn. Their marquee signing (Ruiz) apparently suffers from Alfonso Alves-syndrome, which doesn't bode well! 6) I'm a total mug who backs odds-on shots away from home. :unsure

I have been suprised with Fulham so far. i thought they'd do well under Jol but the signs don't look promising so far although it's still early. I'd just be abit concerned that they often keep games close even against the bigger sides but then again this is a new look man city full of ridiculous talent. Didn;t know that Mancini wants a big goal difference, which is interesting? Obviously letting go of his defensive mentality from last season then? Can't find any value myself in the game but good luck with your bets:hope

[mad_men]

Re: England > Weekend > Premier League > 17-18 September

Badly? Were you watching the same game :) I thought Stoke were a lot better than I imagined. I mean let's not forget they were playing their first away fixture in European football for 40 odd years, at a very tough place to go. They played their normal style, very defensively minded, looking to break up play any way they can, and kept organised. They limited Kiev to very few real chances. I believe there was only one clear cut chance for Kiev in the first half, and at times they struggled to break Stoke down. Really, anyone that thought Stoke would play any differently to the way they did can not have been watching much Premier League football over the last three years :unsure

If playing in defence for 90 minutes is ''played well'', then I guess Stoke did ''played well''. I will never rate football team high whose only aim is ''not to loose'' rather than ''going to win''. Besides that this was Kiev Dinamo and not some Barcelona, Real or Bayern or any other team who is in different class. And this game wasn't actually their first away fixture in European football for ~40 years. They already played qualification stages against Haijduk Split and Thun this year.