Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season

[Spooner]

All odds available at http://www.odds-comparison.co.uk/ Premiership antepost bets in here, winner, relegation, match bets etc. :ok Barclays Premier League Winner 300/1 BAR Barclays Premier League Relegation 25/1 BAR

[dave5perth]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season What type of odds would you roughly be looking at for Man Utd not to finish top 4 2011/2012 season, would odds of 20/1 be about right or would it be a bit less than that?

[AHughes]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season Im going to take a pop at Leighton Baines to get PFA Player of the year at 26/1. Baines had a fine season last year being the best left back in the country in near enough everyones mind yet still not getting into the PFA team of the year. He's still only young and can only still improve his game, I think he will get noticed more next season and also think he will stay at Everton which could make him stand out more as a star player.

[DJ]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season Is it worth backing each of Swansea and Norwich @ 2/1 and 6/4 respectively to finish 11th-17th? I doubt that both of those will be relegated and if at least one of those sides finishes within the listed places then you make a profit.

[Pay Day]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season Based on those odds what do you reckon the combined odds are of a "Manchester" team winning the premiership as if available I will be on it in a flash.

[western skies]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season

What type of odds would you roughly be looking at for Man Utd not to finish top 4 2011/2012 season' date=' would odds of 20/1 be about right or would it be a bit less than that?[/quote'] Man U are a best-priced 1/25 to finish in the top 4 at the moment, so in a perfect world you'd want odds of around 25/1 for them to finish 5th or lower. Any reason why you fancy this bet mate? I know in theory you'd expect Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, & Liverpool all to be stronger next season, but it's still a heck of drop to go from champions to outside the top 4. I rate Lambert and Rodgers very highly, but I'd hazard a guess that Norwich and Swansea will probably have the 2 smallest budgets in the league next season. Who do you see taking the drop in place of one of them?

[dave5perth]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season Cheers Western skies thats the odds I was thinking would be fair for the bet, checked a few bookmakers yesterday was given odds of 10/1 from both. Just feel Man Utd had it very easy last year with a few teams underperforming. I can see improved form from City, Chelsea, Liverpool and hoping Arsenal will make a few signings, Spurs also have the ability to get back into top four. It was just a little interest at the start of the season, but the qoutes of 10/1 so far is a bit short from what I would be willing to take.

[western skies]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season Spot on - 10/1 is a hideous price mate. :loon Like I say, you'd expect Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool etc to improve, but there's no guarantee it will happen. Liverpool had a decent run under Dalglish and Suarez looks the part, but for me they're still a fair way off being a top 4 side. Carroll still has a lot to prove, and they desperately need quality out wide and more cover at full back. They finished 10 points short of an Arsenal team that blew up from the end of February onwards, so there's still a huge gap to bridge. Tottenham might be in with more of a shout of the top 4 without the distraction of the Champions League, but can they afford not to take the Europa League seriously? It's rumoured that Redknapp and Levy don't have the best working relationship and 'Arry isn't seen as the long-term solution by the Spuds board. He's under pressure to cut some of the dead wood from a massive squad and I don't think Levy would be best chuffed if they play the youth team in Europe. Replacing Modric will also be a huge ask if he gets tempted away. There's also a lot of uncertainty around Arsenal right now with Fabregas (as usual) and Clichy supposedly attracting interest and squad players like Bendtner, Arshavin, & Denilson being moved on. Wenger hasn't spent big in the transfer market for a while and it'll be tough for him to gel a whole load of new signings into Arsenal's established pattern of play that quickly. As for Chelsea, who knows anymore? Hiddink was brilliant for us back in 2009 but can he replicate the impact he had then as a temporary manager if he takes the job permanently? At 64, does he really have the hunger for the rebuilding job that we're clearly going to need over the next few seasons? Will he even get the job? The difference with Man U is that they look stable. They won the league without really breaking sweat very often this season and the bulk of that side will be there next year. De Gea looks like a decent replacement for van der Sar and I'd expect them to push the boat out for a proven central midfielder to fill the gap Scholes will leave. Overall, I still think it's likely to be a case of finish above United and you'll be champions.

[Jase82]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season

Spot on - 10/1 is a hideous price mate. :loon Like I say, you'd expect Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool etc to improve, but there's no guarantee it will happen. Liverpool had a decent run under Dalglish and Suarez looks the part, but for me they're still a fair way off being a top 4 side. Carroll still has a lot to prove, and they desperately need quality out wide and more cover at full back. They finished 10 points short of an Arsenal team that blew up from the end of February onwards, so there's still a huge gap to bridge.

I'd expect Dalglish to address that issue in the summer, so the price on Liverpool may be worth getting on early as it's sure to come in. Talk of them signing Lennon or Young.....would be exceptional if they were to get either. I personally think that if you want to lay anyone to finish top four it has to be Arsenal. They look a bit stagnant to me. They've finished trophy-less again, and will struggle to hang on to Fabregas again this season should a bid come in. Does he even seem to want to stay??? Still huge GK issues, which don't look like being addressed any time soon... Spurs? 'Arry's sure to do a bit of wheeling and dealing in the summer. Defense is the key area for me...they have too many defenders that can barely play five minutes without picking up a knock. Strange I say that, considering how their strikers have underperformed, but I still consider them to have one of the best offenses in the league still. Players like Pav, Crouch, Defoe etc may have had poor seasons, but they will come good. No doubt about that as they don't become poor players overnight. Chelsea - Worth waiting to see who becomes manager, as a lot will depend on how much, or IF, their style changes. Also with a few old guard nearing their twilight, will be interesting to see how they adapt. I still think CL is their priority, so the next season may be one of consolidation.

[DoobleDutch]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season Do you know when the 2011-2012 schedule is out? Swansea looks bound to relegation, but if they meet some weak sides earlier on, they could get some points and the to-be-relegated price would increase.

[Jk]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season

I personally think that if you want to lay anyone to finish top four it has to be Arsenal. They look a bit stagnant to me. They've finished trophy-less again' date=' and will struggle to hang on to Fabregas again this season should a bid come in. Does he even seem to want to stay??? Still huge GK issues, which don't look like being addressed any time soon...[/quote'] Here comes the argument from an Arsenal fan. What you have to remember is that our squad is still very young and will keep growing year on year. In Szcezney, Vermaelen, Fabregas and Van Persie we have a very talented spine, and although they all need to prove their fitness, I think having a summer off will be very important. Of course there is a chance that Cesc will go, but personally I can see him staying a couple more years. You then have the likes of Wilshere, Ramsey, Nasri, Walcott, Song, Koscielny and Djourou who are in their early 20's and will have learnt a lot from last season. Remember last season we had a brand new keeper and 3 pretty much brand new centre backs with Djourou missing a lot of the previous few seasons. If we can keep Vermaelen fit, we should have a much more solid defence alongside Djourou or Koscielny. Van Persie has proven towards the end of the season how lethal he can be and his goals will be vital. You then have Chamakh who will have settled in better after his first season. Nasri and Walcott will always be dangerous and I'm expecting Wenger to sign a world class winger, perhaps Hazard. I think we'll be closer to the top of the league than outside the top 4 next season, but once again we will go through the summer as the team most likely to drop out the top 4 like we have done for the past 5 seasons.

[western skies]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season

Do you know when the 2011-2012 schedule is out?

Friday 17th June. :ok I'm with Jk on Arsenal. I don't think they will suddenly mount a proper title challenge with a few new signings, but I don't see them dropping out of the top 4. They're very adept at starting the season strongly and putting some distance between themselves and the chasing pack and they've been singled out as the club most likely to drop out of the Champions League for years now, but it hasn't happened. There's still too much quality in that squad, even if Fabregas leaves. To be honest, I'm not sure the top 4 will change from this season. City are just an unstoppable juggernaut now and, despite our problems, I think Chelsea will still be strong enough, especially at home, no matter who gets manager's job. Liverpool should mount a decent challenge, but their overall squad still needs a lot of work - too much for one transfer window I reckon.

[Mister P]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season

I rate Lambert and Rodgers very highly' date=' but I'd hazard a guess that Norwich and Swansea will probably have the 2 smallest budgets in the league next season. Who do you see taking the drop in place of one of them?[/quote'] Debt-wise, we're not too bad, so I think Lambert :notworthy:notworthy:notworthy will get a decent amount to strengthen. Vaughan already in, Morison too probably soon as well. Lambert :notworthy:notworthy:notworthy likes all his business done early too, so I'd imagine a clearer picture of our chances won't be too far away.

[Jase82]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season

Here comes the argument from an Arsenal fan. What you have to remember is that our squad is still very young and will keep growing year on year. In Szcezney, Vermaelen, Fabregas and Van Persie we have a very talented spine, and although they all need to prove their fitness, I think having a summer off will be very important. Of course there is a chance that Cesc will go, but personally I can see him staying a couple more years. You then have the likes of Wilshere, Ramsey, Nasri, Walcott, Song, Koscielny and Djourou who are in their early 20's and will have learnt a lot from last season. Remember last season we had a brand new keeper and 3 pretty much brand new centre backs with Djourou missing a lot of the previous few seasons. If we can keep Vermaelen fit, we should have a much more solid defence alongside Djourou or Koscielny. Van Persie has proven towards the end of the season how lethal he can be and his goals will be vital. You then have Chamakh who will have settled in better after his first season. Nasri and Walcott will always be dangerous and I'm expecting Wenger to sign a world class winger, perhaps Hazard. I think we'll be closer to the top of the league than outside the top 4 next season, but once again we will go through the summer as the team most likely to drop out the top 4 like we have done for the past 5 seasons.

jeeeeesus christ...... where have we heard this before :unsure It's very much like de ja vue being an Arsenal supporter. I'd like to point out that you have injuries every season, and you've been blooding the youth for several years now. You can say that IF Arsenal stay free of injuries then yes, they'll do ok, but as an outsider I don't personally see any improvement. I just think that with the emergence of City, the improvement Liverpool have made, and the fact the gap between the big clubs and Spurs has narrowed Arsenal will find it even more difficult to progress. Unless, as you say, they can keep all their stars injury free, keep Fabregas, sign a new keeper, and completely change their transfer policy.

[DoobleDutch]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season

jeeeeesus christ...... where have we heard this before :unsure It's very much like de ja vue being an Arsenal supporter. I'd like to point out that you have injuries every season, and you've been blooding the youth for several years now. You can say that IF Arsenal stay free of injuries then yes, they'll do ok, but as an outsider I don't personally see any improvement. I just think that with the emergence of City, the improvement Liverpool have made, and the fact the gap between the big clubs and Spurs has narrowed Arsenal will find it even more difficult to progress. Unless, as you say, they can keep all their stars injury free, keep Fabregas, sign a new keeper, and completely change their transfer policy.

I hear ya about Gunners, but what about Liverpool? I find it quite early to sort of consider them back in the big four. They have had an awesome streak, they played sexy football and scored a bunch--a bit like Spurs in the 1st part of the season. I would not be surprised to see a regression to the mean sometime next season. Liverpool to finish in top 4 is @2.25 on bait365, I think this could be a good lay in the exchanges.

[Jase82]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season

I hear ya about Gunners' date=' but what about Liverpool? [/quote'] I think the price on Liverpool finishing top four will come in quite considerably once they sign some pace, and IMO totally, continue form wise where they left off last season. All about opinions though really....I just think Liverpool are more likely to improve, while Arsenal are really the only side that I don't think can improve unless major changes are made, and @ 1.53 to finish top four they are a definite LAY to me. A good point was made though about Arsenal starting the season well....it just remains to be seen whether that will be enough to cope with their end of season capitulation. Other factors to consider is that Spurs won't really have European football to worry about (yes, I know they are in the Europa league, but they'll be playing a reserve side, and will get knocked out at the first real test).

[Jk]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season

jeeeeesus christ...... where have we heard this before :unsure It's very much like de ja vue being an Arsenal supporter. I'd like to point out that you have injuries every season' date=' and you've been blooding the youth for several years now.[/quote'] Yep this is true but I think people have been a little impatient and often forget just how young this squad is. I still think it will be a couple more seasons before they hit their peak, but I definitely they're progressing rather than degressing which is what many seem to believe.

[icecreamdreams]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season if anyone watched the england game tonight i would be thinking about petitioning wenger to sell djourou. he is shocking and will never be a good centre back. also walcott might aswell quit football and be a sprinter. seriously has there ever been a more stupid footballer??? running at a defender what does he do.. trip up. faced with 4 defenders in front of him while crossing...il kick it about 1 yard in the air so one of them can control it. seriously if arsenal lose fabregas its over. van persie always has an injury no matter what so u cant rely on him for nowt. but ive bet my arsenal fan mate that city finish above them.. by 10 points! easy peasy top 3!!!??? wow mate

[-Blackadder-]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season

Im going to take a pop at Leighton Baines to get PFA Player of the year at 26/1. Baines had a fine season last year being the best left back in the country in near enough everyones mind yet still not getting into the PFA team of the year. He's still only young and can only still improve his game' date= I think he will get noticed more next season and also think he will stay at Everton which could make him stand out more as a star player. Man Utd need to get a central midfielder, as their current CMs are all average (in the lead up to the CL final, being a Liverpool fan, I was pissing myself laughing at the thought of Carrick and Scholes/Giggs against Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets:lol). If noone else improves, they'll win the league by default like this year though. Arsenal will, as usual, start off really well, and everyone will say how they've finally matured, etc, etc. Then around February/March they'll implode, as usual. As for Chelsea, it depends on who they get as manager, and also whether their squad can go on another year, like Milan's did for ages. If they want Torres to do well they need to change their entire style of play, and they have to make a decision over their strikers soon. Spuds imo won't be anywhere near the top four, they were very lucky in 2009/10 and if Modric or Bale leaves or gets injured then they'll fall behind. I don't rate Redknapp much either. Closer to my heart, Liverpool have a decent chance - if we can get some good wingers, another CM and a good left back. I think our revival under Dalglish is best illustrated by the fact that since January, we had something like the second or third highest amount of points gained. The main issue we need to address is consistency, for years we've been doing very well against the big sides but then drawing at home to the likes of Wigan. If we can fix that I think we'll finish around 3rd.

I wouldn't take that if I were you - the PFA award usually goes to a player from a 'big' club or to a stellar offensive player. I think he has a chance for the FWA player of the year though.

[Jk]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season

if anyone watched the england game tonight i would be thinking about petitioning wenger to sell djourou. he is shocking and will never be a good centre back.

On that basis Bent might as well be playing in the Championship on that performance and Ferguson might as well have sold Rooney after last World Cup. He had a poor game (infact he's been poor the last few games) but he's showed good ability when returning to the Arsenal team and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now. I don't think he'll be first choice next season anyway.

also walcott might aswell quit football and be a sprinter. seriously has there ever been a more stupid footballer??? running at a defender what does he do.. trip up. faced with 4 defenders in front of him while crossing...il kick it about 1 yard in the air so one of them can control it. seriously if arsenal lose fabregas its over. van persie always has an injury no matter what so u cant rely on him for nowt.

8 goals and 9 assists isn't bad for a player who only played 1600 minutes of football in the league. I'm certainly not his biggest fan and don't think he should be first choice but to say he should 'quit football' just sounds like a spiteful comment from an England fan. There's a lot he still needs to improve but he's still only 22 and has time on his side.

but ive bet my arsenal fan mate that city finish above them.. by 10 points! easy peasy top 3!!!??? wow mate

We'll see ;)

[Aykay1]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season I would advise people to hold fire on any Arsenal bets at the moment until it becomes clear what happens with players coming in and out. I think people are underestimating the upheaval that could happen this summer. We've already had Denilson and Bendtner hand in transfer requests, Fabregas is a likely departure and Nasri still hasnt extended his contract which means we may be forced to sell him. Denilson and Bendtner leaving is a good thing and will raise some cash. I'd rather Nasri stayed, he is a very good player but i'm reasonably confident he can be replaced adequately. Losing Fabregas would obviously be a huge blow ableit an expected one. On top of the fees generated from the above, (of which i'd hope Wenger will get some) there is money to be spent this summer and our fortunes next season will depend on how well Wenger spends it. He has the biggest summer of his Arsenal career coming up. We have to try and hold onto two of our best players in Fabregas and Nasri, we have to address defensive weaknesses that have plagued us over the last couple of years, we have to put in place a backbone that will enable us to defend 4 goal leads with 25 minutes left, defend leads after scoring in the 97th minute, defend a 2 goal lead at home and away to Spurs - the list could go on. The talent is there - we beat Man Utd, Barcelona and Chelsea this season. However, there are problems that have been ignored over the last couple of years that he is in a position to do something about. He deserves another year to sort out the teams failings. If he ignores them and we start badly next season, then it could be the end of an era :( Come on Arsene :hope

[Pay Day]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season Arsenal need a defensive coach first and foremost, put Vidic/Kompany in that back line and they willl look as shocking as Squillaci and at times Djorou and Koscielney have this year. Also a couple of experienced DM who can be subbed on when they are leading a game, and a proper left back. Everything else is fine, if they adequately replace the deadwood *Squillaci Bendtner Denilson Rosicky Eboue Almunia* with proven premiership quality they'll go close. They are the biggest enigma in football I have ever seen, which makes them a total pain in the arse for any punter. Even if they don't do all of the above there is no chance they will fall out of top 4. It has been touted for years that they will do, but they never have.

[RedDevil92]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season In my opinion United will be still the top team.They have a solid squad and at the end of the season they are getting stronger and stronger.They will sign a new keeper who will be de Gea and.Despite that,they will sign a new midfield player for Scholes and a defender. Chelsea will struggle in my opinion as long as they keep playes like Anelka,Kalou and Malouda and even Torres.Their defense has problems as well with Ferreira and Bosingwa being too bad for this team. Arsenal has to buy a few "stars".Their current team is not good enough as we have seen for the last couple of years.Their strikers are struggling,Nasri and Denilson want to leave,their defense is leaky and they got a goalie problem. The Reds have been a team under Kenny Dalglish end finished the season much better than they started.They wil sign some young and very talented players like Henderson and Jones. The Spurs need to find a problem for their bad strikers.They are al struggling to score especially Defoe.I they can sign a goal scorer they may get a good chance to end 4th and reach the Champions League. City won't become champions under Mancini.Now they will play in the Champions League and be more tired.Under Mancini they won't win a big throphy because he has n real plan than just to play his defense system.They are to dependent on Tevez and if he leaves they will have problems to find the net with Dzeko who didn't convince anybody and with bad boy Balotelli.I he wasn't able to form a real team in two years and now they are going to play twice a week.No way that City wins the Premier League title this year (hopefully never)

[HastGill1]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season You think De Gea will make United stronger!? I would be very surprised if he does. United had the most consistent keeper in the league over the last two years in VDS, and only if De Gea is as good as VDS will he be considered as a success..being 20 years old and having little experience outside his domestic league bar the Europa League, I would find this unlikely. It will surely take him time to find his feet, and this would only be normal as he adapts. Besides, he hasn't actually signed for them yet, but it appears he will.. Wouldn't rule out a Chelsea spending spree but it obviously depends on who they get in as manager, think the side is pretty stale now in need of major overhaul. Lampard, Drogba, Anelka, Malouda will all be a year older and it is unlikely they will be back to the form they were in a couple of years ago given their age's. The side is just too old and been together too long, standards have fallen and they only finished above a Man City side that flattered to deceive for most of the season, on goal difference. City's season will depend on Tevez, he is probably the best striker in the league now but looked knackered for the last third of the season and continues to moan about playing the game in England. They have little back up in Balotelli and Dzeko as neither are currently consistent enough, and Balotelli is a c***. Be interesting to see who they sign if Tevez does leave but it is only likely to weaken them. Silva was much better than I expected and you can expect him to be better still next year after a summer off, could be a big player in the league next year. I agree it's United's league to lose, simply because no-one else has any consistency, it is unlikely United will be as bad as they were this year and Fergie is likely to sign a couple of players in outfield positions. He is fairly hit and miss on transfers though in midfield especially, so we will have to wait and see who he goes for. Still very early to be talking too seriously about next season though, won't know enough to do much serious analysis for about another 4-6 weeks..

[dave5perth]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season My other bet for the start of the season is Man City @ 2.25 match bet against Man Utd bet365, this bet should have come up last season but for Mancini's cautious style of play. City should now have the confidence this season to stamp their authority on matches, after qualifying for champ league. Their squad is solid and no doubt they will bring even more big names to the club to warm up the subs bench. Their is certainly more value in this bet than Utd winning the league at around 2.7 in my opinion.

[trequartista]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season

Personally I think we're only just behind United and still better than City, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea. Chelsea and City will probably make big investment which may change things but I'm not too sure. It will certainly be an interesting summer anyway but I'm very confident Arsenal will be at least in the top 3 next season.

On what evidence have you used for Arsenal to be better than Chelsea? No trophy for 6 seasons, Chelsea finished above you again last season and you won 3 out of your last 14 matches - 2 of which were against Leyton Orient & Blackpool. Wenger has still not sorted the defensive area which costs you every season and the likes of Nasri, Clichy and Fabregas want away. Yes you have a young sqaud but you always get found out. Arsenal will finish below United, City and Chelsea next season and will be lucky to stay above Liverpool and Spurs at this rate. I took Liverpool for the title at the end of the season - 16/1 with Paddy Power and I'm hoping they trade at far lower. They won't win the title but they'll be a lot closer during the season so should make some money out of that.

[trequartista]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season I'll also stick my neck out and back Torres for top goalscorer. Haven't seen any odds for this market yet but he'll have had his first rest for 3 pre-seasons and with the likelyhood of Drogba moving on I reckon he'll hit at least 20 league goals.

[Jk]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season

On what evidence have you used for Arsenal to be better than Chelsea? No trophy for 6 seasons' date=' Chelsea finished above you again last season and you won 3 out of your last 14 matches - 2 of which were against Leyton Orient & Blackpool.[/quote'] The fact that Chelsea have an ageing, less fit squad than Arsenal who have a young, up and coming squad. Our end of season form was, once again, awful but I think mentally the team just collapsed. During November and December, Chelsea only won 3 of 13 matches, which were two 1-0 home wins against Fulham and Bolton and a 2-1 win against Zilna. Both teams had poor patches of form, Arsenals just happened to be at the end of the season. We beat them 3-1 during that time as well, and totally dominated the match.

[-Blackadder-]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season

The fact that Chelsea have an ageing' date=' less fit squad than Arsenal who have a young, up and coming squad. Our end of season form was, once again, awful but I think mentally the team just collapsed.[/quote'] I'm sick of the "young, up and coming squad" excuse with Arsenal - they've been "young, up and coming" for at least three years now. And a mental collapse is a bad thing, not an excuse for failure; more a reason. That poor run happens to be why they didn't win the league. It's no coincidence that Man Utd didn't have a crap run like that and ended up champions. Of the four CBs you mentioned, one can be considered a success (Vermaelen). Of the remaining three, none should be starting for a top club. Fair enough. I'd say there's a slight chance you could finish beneath both, but Spurs may well collapse now. As for Liverpool, I'd say there's a 40%-ish chance you could finish below us. We were above you in 2006/07 when we had a worse squad than now and your squad was about the same. We won't win the title, I'm pretty certain of that; however we have a good chance for a Top Four finish so 2.25 are good odds for that (bet365).

[-Blackadder-]

Re: Barclays Premier League > Ante-Post 2011-12 Season

I'll also stick my neck out and back Torres for top goalscorer. Haven't seen any odds for this market yet but he'll have had his first rest for 3 pre-seasons and with the likelyhood of Drogba moving on I reckon he'll hit at least 20 league goals.

If Chelsea totally change their system to play to his strengths, there's a chance; that would mean making him by far and away first choice, playing one up front and, most importantly, not pumping high balls at him with his back to goal but playing through balls behind the CBs for him to run on to.