The Equaliser
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Posts
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Posts posted by The Equaliser
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9 hours ago, Zilzalian said:
The only problem i see with treating it as a winning horse and not a losing bet, and i do get it but if for the rest of the month internetmails plays short price favs ew by the same logic- a place must also be classed as a winner and no doubt because he already has a 66/1 (easily passing the 10+ point requirement) winner the chances are he would waltz in on the most winners comp.
I can't quite follow the logic of that. Internetmails could get 28 placed horse at 66/1 and wouldn't stand a chance of winning the most winners comp.
I feel that the whole administration team at Punters Lounge would have to think very carefully about imposing a rule that states that in the case of a dead-heat a person who's bet shows a negative value should have the horse treated as a loser.
Think about it. Had someone else chosen the other winning horse in my race then, according to @MCLARKEthat would have been deemed to be a winner and my horse a loser. You will not find one racing authority in the UK or indeed around the world that will support the idea that there is a winner and a loser in a dead-heat race where there are only two runners!!
I think that it was right to record the negative value of my bet and not right to not record it as a loser.
I do have a lot of respect for Michael @MCLARKE he seems to shrug off a losing bet of £100 at odds of 1/3 and has great financial and spreadsheet skills. However, when I feel that he has said something wrong then I feel entitled to voice my opinion.
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19 hours ago, Wanderlust said:
It does not count as a winner.
On the above example you would "win" because your losses were less, not because you had more winners.
Its common sense really.
McClarke has a hard enough job to do without having spend time having to explain something which is obvious to everybody else on here.
I wondered when you would stick your oar in. There are 77 PL members in the current table above for February so far so how you can have the audacity to say that everybody else on here says it doesn't count as a winner is beyond me when only four members liked your comment. Check the result. The horse has officially finished FIRST. IT IS A WINNER. This is a most winners competition. There is nothing in the rules that states a dead-heat winner shall be deemed a loser. Unless and until this is specifically stated in the rules I stand by my request to @MCLARKEto have my selection be treated as a winner. I say what I like and like what I bloody well say!!.......Georgie Whtbread
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4.30 Sou Batocchi 1 pt win at 13/8 with Betfair
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1 hour ago, Bang on said:
With 'potential improvers', that's just it, they have to improve or you lose. I've made that mistake plenty of times in the past.
I think that I would like to add horses with experience too. I chose to back Flying Sara Yesterday moving into hurdles over glitzy bumper performances. Just didn't take to hurdling at all Midnight Callisto, the form horse with a lot of experience won the race unchallenged. I do realise that potential improvers and super bumper winners will win many races but they seem to be over-hyped and as you point out very often not a value bet at all
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4 minutes ago, Alley Cat Glover said:
Nearly right, I prefer to pick horses by watching previous races, try to find something, I do try at rate races more now but, not consistently as I can’t spare the time. I like reading these threads and really only bet at weekends or sometimes Monday if I can find time on the Sunday night to find something although as you well know Mondays are normally poor fair. Couple of Lucky 15’s on a Saturday or Sunday is normally my way. Don’t like small fields or short prices, so have always read Richards posts with interest, he taught me two things, don’t be afraid to back a horse that drifts or to back more than one horse in a race. Only bet on the one race today, because I read the thread at lunchtime and had a look when I got home.
Very well put. Many thanks
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8 hours ago, The Equaliser said:
Terrible fare on offer today. I have struggled to even find one Trixie
2.20 Leic Ballinsker 11/4
2.50 Leic Lively Citizen 9/4
3.10Ex Finest View 13/8
1 x 4 pt Win Trixie = poss return of 62.54 points
Singles:
2.40 Ex Flying Sara (PL Nap) 4 pts win at 2.12 = poss return of 8.39
8.30 Km Smith 2 points win at 5.90 = poss return of 11.60 (looks like a good bet)
Total stakes = 10 points
RESULTS UPDATE
Another blank day but an interesting one. I was suckered in by the hype around Flying Sara instead of going for the horse with all the experience and in great form. In the 3.10 the best form horse won too, though at cramped odds. When making my selections in future I will choose the horses that are in good form and that have conditions to suit over the so-called potential improvers or expected wonder horses. A loss of 10 units make Feb MTD -16 YTD - 89.02. Single bets versus multiples = -3 v -4
I'm out all day tomorrow so if I can't sort something out tonight then I will have to leave it for the day
- Wildgarden and MCLARKE
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42 minutes ago, Alley Cat Glover said:
Great result, all your hard work certainly seems to have paid off, always used to folllow your thread before, early days but this does seem to be even better, took the top 3 each way, I know it’s not your way, but prices suited, but also 20p reverse forecast the 3 and 10p reverse tricast the 3, so thanks and will follow with interest, will have to work on mine, do alright but never like your results.
It's good to see you make a post. Forgive me but didn't you once tell me that the only way that you have found to make money in racing is to watch and rewatch races so as to determine which horse is the best one to bet on? I may have mis-remembered and if this is so I appologise. Good to hear from you anyway
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1 minute ago, Wildgarden said:
2nd and 3rd and i left the 2nd off george for the additional money as drifted. enduring nowhere.
Quite interesting that @richard-westwoodrelies on profit from drifters whilst you are put off by them
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4 hours ago, richard-westwood said:
730 kemp
Love dreams 9.5 8/1
Epsom faithful 9.4 9/1
George Morland 9.0 11/2
Mount Mogan 8.9 16.0 betfair
Enduring 7.9
Good humour 7.9
Open race but only 1 of any interest on quiet day ....Will be interesting to see how it pans out .....1pt wins top 4
Absolutely fascinating. As I was bored I thought I would look at this race using the Timeform & RPR top two ratings. I came up with Good Humour, Enduring, George Morland and Love Dreams. It was close with the last one and Epsom Faithful but I opted for Love Dreams as its RPR was 1 point ahead of Epsom Faithful. I wonder if @Wildgardenhas a view on this?
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18 minutes ago, MCLARKE said:
No. I believe these records are maintained by @The Brigadier
I hope so. He said he would look into this at the weekend. It is the flag ship of Punters Lounge so someone should keep it up to date especially as it says "current tips profit"
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11 minutes ago, MCLARKE said:
Your opponent would show a loss of £3 and you would have a loss of £2.42 so you would be deemed the winner.
You make my point perfectly. The winner counts as a winner even though a loss has occurred. Entrants for the KO cup are derived from the Naps comp so as stated above even though I made a loss I should be credited with having a winner unless and until such a time as you amend the rules.
Very many thanks for answering the question. I have no wish to argue with you especially if you now have to readjust P/L figures for other results.
BTW have you now been roped into updating the Free Tips tables as they have not been updated since 31.7.21?
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Terrible fare on offer today. I have struggled to even find one Trixie
2.20 Leic Ballinsker 11/4
2.50 Leic Lively Citizen 9/4
3.10Ex Finest View 13/8
1 x 4 pt Win Trixie = poss return of 62.54 points
Singles:
2.40 Ex Flying Sara (PL Nap) 4 pts win at 2.12 = poss return of 8.39
8.30 Km Smith 2 points win at 5.90 = poss return of 11.60 (looks like a good bet)
Total stakes = 10 points
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2.40 Ex Flying Sara1 pt win at 6/5 with Bet365
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7 hours ago, roger2256 said:
If a horse is backed at say 3/1 e/w and finished 2nd or 3rd it's deemed a loser as far as the comp is concerned because returns do not exceed initial stake , this is no different your 1 pt returned .58 ergo a loser
The other horse was 4/1 so 1/2 stake at full odds would be .5 x 5 = 2.5 returns -1 stake = + 1.5 so I assume this would be treated as a winner ??
It's the 1st of Feb if it's important at the end of the month then you can make an objection until then MC's decision must stand .
If a horse finishes 2nd or 3rd it is a loser. i.e it hasn't won the race
I can look at the result of this race until doomsday and it will always show that my horse finished first and was a winner.
The kind of question that needs to be answered is that if this was a KO cup final and I had this horse been in my selections and it was the only one that won and my opponent had no winners then would I be told that I hadn't won the comp because there is financial loss and that I would have to play again the next day? Doesn't seem right to me.
A winner is a winner and I do not believe that this fact should be ignored unless and until there is a proper change to the rules which are shown in writing.
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7 minutes ago, MCLARKE said:
I recall this debate a while back and the stance that BH took was that if the bet resulted in a financial loss then it would be deemed a losing bet.
Sorry, I don't recall this. To me it's a bit like asking the owners of the winning horses just to share second place prize money. Absolutely bonkers. When is a winning horse a loser; when it dead heats. Crazy.
Just as with the KO cup nothing has been done to amend the rules to say if x number of punters can't get on because of technical problems then the comp is re-run again and in this instance there is nothing in the rules to say that a horse that dead-heats is deemed to be a loser.
This all seems to me to be unfair once again in my opinion
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21 minutes ago, Zilzalian said:
This is the relevant rule,
it is your stake and not the odds that are changed by a dead heat. Whilst each way bets pay out at a fraction of the odds based on the full stake, dead heat winners pay out at full odds but only a fraction of the stake (with the remaining stake being settled as a losing bet).
Dead Heat Rules | Betting Guides | BettingSites.org.uk
Many thanks for that. However, the horse(s) still finished first. Just as in the KO comp a pl member can win the competition on a negative return as long as his challenger has a larger negative return
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12 hours ago, The Equaliser said:
Very rushed today but my bets are:
12.20 Rina Farrage EV
2.20 Ffos Desque De Lisle 6/4
4.00 Nc Half Track 11/10
1 x 3.2 Trixie = poss return of 19.96 points
3.20 Ffos Brooksway Fair 6/1
5.50 Wolv Le Reveur 9/4
1 x 2.8 pts double = poss return 63.70 points
Simgles
4.00 Nc Half Track (Pl Nap ) 4 pts win at 2.24 = poss return 8.86 points
Total stakes 10 points
RESULTS UPDATE
I find what is most annoying about today's results is that in the 3.20 at Ffos Las Powerful Position was the overnight favourite and drifted from being 9/2 out to 15/2 and it won. Had the market had shown it favourably I would more than likely had backed it in my doubles bet. I noticed that other horses that drifted from their overnight positions also won too. It was only Le Reveur that shortened from my price of 9/4 into 11/10 that won (from the 6 races that I chose to look at). My nap bet Half Track was a non runner so 6 points lost today. This makes my loss for Feb 6 points & YTD -79.02. A 1 pt win stake on the 4 multiple bet runners that did run = -4 + 3.25 = -.75
3 UK Meetings tomorrow so hopefully I will find a winner or two
- richard-westwood and MCLARKE
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16 minutes ago, Zilzalian said:
Mmm Tricky one, Im guessing and only guessing the negative number is key given that johnrobertsons is also negative and classed as a loser, a win in this competition the "stake" is not returned causing the negative. Basically its the stakes that are halved. I understand why your querying it though.
Yes, I agree that stakes are halved etc and the only reference I can find in the comp rules are about Rule 4 deductions. However, no matter how much the returns are diminished the horse was still a winner albeit it dead-heated. This being so I feel that it should be treated as a winner unless and until the rules have been amended to specifically state that if there is a dead heat then both winners will be declared losers which seems bizarre.
Great 10/1 winner from you today
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@MCLARKEI can't see why this has been treated as a loser when it dead-heated for first place. I can't see anything in the rules to support this. Please advise?
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57 minutes ago, Zilzalian said:
that will teach you lol ?
I couldn't find a bookie to take an each-way bet. Good job that it managed to dead-heat for first
@MCLARKEI am not sure why you have treated it as a loser when it dead-heated for first place. I can't see anything in the rules that indicates that this is so. Please advise?
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4.00 Nc Half Track 1 pt win at 5/4 with Betvictor
I resisted the temptation to nap Golden Sands at 1/4 in the 7.50 at Wolves ?
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Very rushed today but my bets are:
12.20 Rina Farrage EV
2.20 Ffos Desque De Lisle 6/4
4.00 Nc Half Track 11/10
1 x 3.2 Trixie = poss return of 19.96 points
3.20 Ffos Brooksway Fair 6/1
5.50 Wolv Le Reveur 9/4
1 x 2.8 pts double = poss return 63.70 points
Simgles
4.00 Nc Half Track (Pl Nap ) 4 pts win at 2.24 = poss return 8.86 points
Total stakes 10 points
- black rabbit and azzybear
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@MCLARKECan this be amended to say 1.2.22 or perhaps @Wildgardencan edit it?
Naps - Friday 4th February
in NAP of the Day Competition
Posted
1.20 Chep Current Mood 1 pt win at 5/4 with Bet365